I really enjoy the feel of DCCRPG, however I'm concerned that simply the amount of tables required for combat and spell results might be a bit over the top. How much of the finished product is going to be tables of spell results, tables of patron results, tables of Deed results, tables of crit results, etc.?
With that said, I'm currently getting things sorted out to start running this good looking RPG.
A lot of tables
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goodmangames
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Re: A lot of tables
A lot of people definitely react strongly to the tables!
My own experience is that, even with the tables, the game runs a lot faster than 3E and 4E. You occasionally have to roll a die and compare it to a table, but there is very little "rules research" or "rules debate" while playing - the game just flows.
I have a homemade DM screen which helps a lot. I have the crit/fumble tables facing the players. Whenever someone scores a crit or fumble, they call out the result then the PLAYERS read the result (whoever is closest to the DM screen).
As for spells, I photocopy them and give copies to the relevant players (wizard, cleric, etc.) before the game.
With a good DM screen and copies of the spell templates, you should find it runs quickly. But let me know.
My own experience is that, even with the tables, the game runs a lot faster than 3E and 4E. You occasionally have to roll a die and compare it to a table, but there is very little "rules research" or "rules debate" while playing - the game just flows.
I have a homemade DM screen which helps a lot. I have the crit/fumble tables facing the players. Whenever someone scores a crit or fumble, they call out the result then the PLAYERS read the result (whoever is closest to the DM screen).
As for spells, I photocopy them and give copies to the relevant players (wizard, cleric, etc.) before the game.
With a good DM screen and copies of the spell templates, you should find it runs quickly. But let me know.
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Dreamslinger
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Re: A lot of tables
goodmangames wrote:My own experience is that, even with the tables, the game runs a lot faster than 3E and 4E. You occasionally have to roll a die and compare it to a table, but there is very little "rules research" or "rules debate" while playing - the game just flows.
Just curious Joseph ( or is it Joe? ), how often does someone have the stones to debate the rules with you in a DCC game that you're running?
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goodmangames
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Re: A lot of tables
Good point, not a lot.Dreamslinger wrote:Just curious Joseph ( or is it Joe? ), how often does someone have the stones to debate the rules with you in a DCC game that you're running?
But I do ask for playtest feedback during the game, so although there isn't debate, there are sometimes comments and questions on the rules. The biggest area of debate is often character generation, though. Many gamers are floored that I ask them to roll stats as 3d6 down the line. We've had an entire generation of gamers raised on "roll 4d6, drop the lowest score, and then assign your stats as you see fit." There are some funny comments on Grognardia right now about people surprised at how many "negative modifiers" their characters have in DCC RPG. Stats in DCC RPG feature a perfect bell curve -- straight 3d6 -- so there should be just as many negatives as positives. It's just that we haven't been used to looking at many negatives for something like 20 years now...
Re: A lot of tables
RE tables.
If you have a rules set with X amount of rules, you can either write them out in 'normal' prose text blocks or you can extract a lot of it into tables. Given that choice, I much prefer to have information in tabular form; There's a very good reason why the sciences take advantage of tables a lot and in many ways, a "table says a thousand words".
Thus, I personally have no issues with tables. It's not as if it's rocket science to find a result in a clearly numbered table.
However, the table-shy opinion might in fact be people passing comment on the number of rules. Their objection to so many tables in fact being an objection to the volume of rules. However, so far I would put DCC RPG into the middle of the road for crunch. It looks to be much lighter than say GURPS, although it's no Trail of Cthulhu.
If you have a rules set with X amount of rules, you can either write them out in 'normal' prose text blocks or you can extract a lot of it into tables. Given that choice, I much prefer to have information in tabular form; There's a very good reason why the sciences take advantage of tables a lot and in many ways, a "table says a thousand words".
Thus, I personally have no issues with tables. It's not as if it's rocket science to find a result in a clearly numbered table.
However, the table-shy opinion might in fact be people passing comment on the number of rules. Their objection to so many tables in fact being an objection to the volume of rules. However, so far I would put DCC RPG into the middle of the road for crunch. It looks to be much lighter than say GURPS, although it's no Trail of Cthulhu.
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claytonian
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Re: A lot of tables
I don't mind the tables; as a 4e player I use power cards all the time. Each spell having its own page or two makes them easier to find/copy than 1e-3e too.
However, I think getting tables on deeds is a bit much; that should really be an ad hoc thing that fits the story I feel. Any effects you put on your enemy should just last for the rest of the battle or longer so no one has to keep track.
However, I think getting tables on deeds is a bit much; that should really be an ad hoc thing that fits the story I feel. Any effects you put on your enemy should just last for the rest of the battle or longer so no one has to keep track.
Re: A lot of tables
My love of tables, second only to my ardor for tab-indexing....
My regular players won't be phased to see me flipping through tables... I have a full set of ICE fumble and critical strike charts. They learned to fear tables long ago...
Personally I think the fumble chart isn't nasty enough. My players might think they're on vacation
My regular players won't be phased to see me flipping through tables... I have a full set of ICE fumble and critical strike charts. They learned to fear tables long ago...
Personally I think the fumble chart isn't nasty enough. My players might think they're on vacation
Re: A lot of tables
I am also a fan of Rolemaster, so I find charts very natural and easy to use. As Joseph suggested, a little organization on the part of the GM goes a long way. I make custom screens for almost all of my games now.
However, I personally do not let the players read the crit or fumble results. As the GM, I like to add my own flavor and descriptions to the crit results. It's a lot of the fun of combat for me. Also, even with Rolemaster, where there are significantly more crit results than DCC, the descriptions eventually got stale and needed a little spicing up. Finally, a crit description may not gel with what is actually happening in the game at the time and may require a bit of imagination to make it fit.
I look at the written descriptions as evocative guidelines for my combat fu.
However, I personally do not let the players read the crit or fumble results. As the GM, I like to add my own flavor and descriptions to the crit results. It's a lot of the fun of combat for me. Also, even with Rolemaster, where there are significantly more crit results than DCC, the descriptions eventually got stale and needed a little spicing up. Finally, a crit description may not gel with what is actually happening in the game at the time and may require a bit of imagination to make it fit.
I look at the written descriptions as evocative guidelines for my combat fu.