Patron spells

[Skyscraper]

I was re-reading the book in the last few days and it's unclear to me how a wizard gains a patron spell.

Before we get there, I'll review my understanding of how a wizard gets to deal with a patron, to make sure I get this straight.

First, a wizard may cast Patron Bond, and if successful, he'll thereafter be dealing with a patron.

The practical implementation of that deal is that the wizard who cast Patron Bond will receive Invoke Patron, the results of which are described in the book for each patron.

My understanding is that patron spells are only given to the wizard by the patron if the Patron Bond result was high enough.

How, assuming that the wizard receives such a spell, does it override the number of spells limitation? I.e. does he need to ditch one of his old spells to be able to learn the patron spell?

Are there other ways to gain a patron spell? (I assume that a judge may decide to give a wizard a patron spell, for example if the patron is please with the wizard.)

Is there anything I'm missing? The mechanics are kind of fuzzy on the borders and I want to make sure that I fully understand this important rule portion of the game.

Thanks,

Sky

[Raven_Crowking]

A caster may gain a patron spell in one of several ways:

(1) Patron Bond with a spell check of 28+.

(2) Gained randomly by rolling on the spell chart when a level is gained.

(3) Given as a gift by the patron as a result of some extraordinary service, to be determined by the judge. This is not explicit in the text, but it is a logical extrapolation.

(4) Also not explicit, but the caster could bargain with the patron, offering something of importance in order to gain access to the spell. This is really just (3), except that the caster is proactive, rather than the patron.

(5) Stolen or otherwise gained from another Wizard's grimoire where the Wizard has the same patron.

(6) Beat Through the Cotillion of Hours (when it comes out) and beg Somnos for access to the spell as a gift. Or some similar quest. (3), (4), and (6) are really just extensions of the "Quest for it" advice Joseph Goodman gives in the core rulebook. It is good advice.

I'm sure others can think of other ideas.

[Skyscraper]

good summary

Thanks for the summary R-C. I did not remember that the spell could be obtained randomly from the spell list per #2 above. I assume this still requires that the Patron Bond be established beforehand? I.e. do you think that some patron spells could be stand-alone, i.e. you find them and use them without having dealt with the patron? It seems contrary to the spirit of those spells at first sight. Which leads to the question: assuming you roll randomly on the spell list and get Patron Spell as a spell, what do you do with it if you don't have Patron Bond as a spell?

Thanks,

Sky

[Skyscraper]

And also: does this spell override the spell number limitation? Assuming the patron give the spell to the wizard, can the wizard immediately learn and cast it, or does he need to wait until he reaches a new level that gives him access to a new spell slot of the appropriate level?

[Raven_Crowking]

good summary

Thanks for the summary R-C.

You're welcome.

I did not remember that the spell could be obtained randomly from the spell list per #2 above. I assume this still requires that the Patron Bond be established beforehand? I.e. do you think that some patron spells could be stand-alone, i.e. you find them and use them without having dealt with the patron?

You must have a patron to gain a patron spell.

*Important Caveat* the judge may allow a patron spell to be gained without a patron using the "Quest for it" advice, but, in this case, the patron would very likely be offended and seek to do the caster ill.

It seems contrary to the spirit of those spells at first sight.

Agreed. And I think it would be a foolish PC who went on such a quest, as most patrons have the ability to make their unhappiness known!

Which leads to the question: assuming you roll randomly on the spell list and get Patron Spell as a spell, what do you do with it if you don't have Patron Bond as a spell?

Re-roll!

Thanks,

Sky

Any time!

Daniel

[Raven_Crowking]

And also: does this spell override the spell number limitation? Assuming the patron give the spell to the wizard, can the wizard immediately learn and cast it, or does he need to wait until he reaches a new level that gives him access to a new spell slot of the appropriate level?

The way I read the Patron Bond spell, the caster has a limit to how many times he can use the patron spell with a high spell check. I.e., it is a special invocation of the patron, not a separate spell known. So in this case, no, it does not count against spells known.

Otherwise, yes.


RC

[Zeiros]

Sorry if somehow I missed this in the Rulebook. but how is access to Patron Spells gained.
Automatic based on successful bond with Patron?
do the Patron Spells count against number of known spells?
For instance our Wizard Xavos is a Patron of the Three Fates, he knows 5 Spells at level 1
(4 plus 1 for his INT mod) after this selection was made he cast the Patron Spell forming the relationship.
Now he wants to learn the level 1 Patron Spell Blade of Atropos, does he need to wait until level 2 when he can pick up an additional
Spell? I've heard arguments on both side from my guys on this one...
how is anyone else playing it? thanks

[Colin]

Merged post with same questioning.

[Zeiros]

Thanks Colin, apologies for missing this

yikes, I hate when the answer is a clearly a RTFM. I cant believe I overlooked the 28+ result on Patron Bond
Our Wizard in question Bond result was less. Given the Invoke Patron "per Judge" rulings use of these spell
could easily be an "answer to call" on a high enough spell check agreed?