History of the OSR

[Galadrin]

I was just thinking about how the OSR has developed. If you look at the timeline, it really began with an attempt to emulate generic, vanilla fantasy D&D:

HackMaster (2001)
Castles & Crusades (2004)
OSRIC (2006)
Basic Fantasy RPG (2006)
Labyrinth Lord (2007)
Swords & Wizardry (2008)

After 4e was released in 2008, the direction of new OSR games and supplements shifted dramatically, and the community really began to focus on alternate directions that D&D could have taken (both thematically and mechanically). There was a strong urge to go back to the literature genres that inspired the original game (particularly Lovecraft and Howard). Just take a look at the slew of Cthulhu & Conan games after 2008:

Barbarians of Lemuria (2008)
Supplement V: Carcosa (2008)
Lamentations of the Flame Princess (2010)
Realms of Crawling Chaos (2011)
Crypts & Things (2011)
Adventurer, Conqueror, King (2012)
Astonishing Swordsmen & Sorcerers of Hyperborea (2012?)

Interestingly, DCC builds on these but is not based on them. Although the drive to discover "the D&D that never was" after the advent of 4e is not unique, the vision of DCC suggested in the artwork and text is not really derivative of either Cthulhu or Conan stories, but is a mad jumble of many authors and themes that really predate "old-school". To me, the most interesting form this has previously taken was David Hargrave's Arduin (a mad setting that mixed TIE fighters, Scorpadillos and fighting-men riding dinosaurs). A modern successor to this science fantasy style is Encounter Critical (2004), but also Supplement 86: The Outlands (2011) and perhaps Mutant Future (2008). DCC looks to be more cohesive than these, but I think it could also support this random playstyle as well.

I think it all rests on DCC's setting, or how distinctly or loosely this will be defined. What is your preference? Would you like to see DCC forge on with its own well-defined feel, or would you prefer that DCC did not force a specific setting on the judge's creativity, and simply allowed him or her to be inspired by the excellent art and scattered flavour text?

Also, on an unrelated note, is anyone else thinking The Outlands is a perfect place to throw a DCC campaign?

[finarvyn]

I was just thinking about how the OSR has developed. If you look at the timeline, it really began with an attempt to emulate generic, vanilla fantasy D&D:

HackMaster (2001)

Well, this certainly seems like an appropriate start, since 3E was launched in 2000 and so a "back to earlier editions" movement couldn't have started much before 2001.

Unless you want to go really far back, to the D&D/AD&D split.

[reverenddak]

Yeah, the OSR is pretty much a response to "modern" D&D... I think it's funny how modern "D&D" is 12 years old.

I actually played more 3e than "Advanced" and more 4e than "Basic"... and I was playing Swords & Wizardry before I moved to DCC RPG.

What a strange trip it has been.

[Aplus]

Also, on an unrelated note, is anyone else thinking The Outlands is a perfect place to throw a DCC campaign?

Absolutely! And you can count on the fact that I will be sharing my notes for all the weird sci-fantasy stuff I plan to do with DCC. It fits very nicely with the type of game I've been fond of running lately, which has included laser guns, dinosaurs, radiation/mutations, tegel-manor-style haunted houses, crashed-starship-warden-turned-dungeon, magic karate suits from arduin, panthro nunchucks that can shoot poison gas, lightsabers, smokin' hot topless amazons, pretty much everything from carcosa, etc. etc.

One thing I did from the beta is split out the races and background professions into two separate tables.

Outland Races

(Note that I currently run my Outland games using Original Dungeons & Dragons circa 1974, but will likely switch to DCC once it's out.)

Keep an eye out for my stuff! And if you haven't already done so, you can check out the hacks I already made for DCC by clicking the DCC RPG Resources link at the top of the page.
http://peoplethemwithmonsters.blogspot.com/

[Tortog]

Thanx for the info... I can honestly say that I've never even heard of some of them. I stuck w/ 3.5 and diligently tried to reshape it into something that I could enjoy because that's where 80% of the players were to be found and it was easier to convince folks to play a "homebrew" 3.5 than to get enough folks interested in spin-offs.

To me, the most interesting form this has previously taken was David Hargrave's Arduin (a mad setting that mixed TIE fighters, Scorpadillos and fighting-men riding dinosaurs).

I never got a chance to actually play anything in the Arduin setting, but I did manage to get a photocopy of the core rule book years ago (I love garage sales, an overlooked source of old gaming materials) I used the random character "tweaks" at character generation for years; right along side the critical tables from I.C.E. (& I never stopped using '3d6 in order' method for stats) I think that's why I like the DCCRPG so much... it is familiar in a 'spooky' kind of way.

I think it all rests on DCC's setting, or how distinctly or loosely this will be defined. What is your preference? Would you like to see DCC forge on with its own well-defined feel, or would you prefer that DCC did not force a specific setting on the judge's creativity, and simply allowed him or her to be inspired by the excellent art and scattered flavour text?

I think that trying to define the quintessential setting for DCCRPG is a bad idea. I've always felt that the 'flavor' of a game should be defined by the folks at the table playing it. From my POV, the more work that the authors of the game system do to predefine the 'flavor' or 'setting' is just that much more work I'll have to do to adapt it to my setting or get rid of it.

[finarvyn]

I stuck w/ 3.5 and diligently tried to reshape it into something that I could enjoy because that's where 80% of the players were to be found...

You might take a look at C&C, by the way. C&C started with the 3E SRD and brought in elements which are philosophically more in line with AD&D. I find that it's a great system since both my AD&D friends and 3E friends seem to enjoy it.

Also, Goodman Games has a couple of great C&C modules for sale.

[RevTurkey]

Yes, if you haven't played Castles & Crusades....and want something similar to AD&D but cleaned up and easier to run, play and read then I highly recommend getting the Players Handbook and Monsters & Treasures books....all you need.

Had a lot of fun with it. I ran all the Goodman C&C modules. Smuggler's Cove and Dread Crypt of Shrihoz (i think that is the title) were my favourites. Very enjoyable and not expensive.

The modules from Troll Lord games (the C&C publisher) are a mixed bag. The Assault on Blacktooth Ridge is good but some of them really suffer from bad proof reading and some weird issues with maps...that said the ruleset is one of the best around. Very solid. The system is a doddle to convert to though so worth a try if you like Old School gaming and want a change from DCC RPG once it is out.

[Tortog]

@ finarvyn & Rev Turkey> Thanx for the ideas. People keep recommending C&C to me, but I simply don't have the time to worry about learning another new system. Besides I've found that it only takes a couple of minor tweaks to turn DCCRPG into a kick-a$$ AD&D emulator; , and I find the use of tables in the DCCRPG system to be a much easier and more efficient presentation for systems info. My players and I are already discussing what house rules we're going to implement once the system goes live; the first one on the list will most likely be rules for multi-classing the PC's. So I'm fairly certain that we've found our gaming system of choice.

[RevTurkey]

Hi Tortog.. DCC RPG looks like it's going to be fantastic and I will be giving it a good run to see how my group get on with it. Looking forward to it landing on my doorstep

Some very good rulesets floating around at the moment and sometimes it's tough to decide which to go for. Don't think we can go far wrong using what Joseph has been cooking up in that bubbling cauldron.

Roll on April!

[goodmangames]

Not that I want to steer anyone away from DCC RPG but if you ever get a chance to play C&C directly with one of the Trolls, do it! Steve in particular is a great GM and he makes the game come alive.

[RevTurkey]

Steve at Troll Lord Games is a great guy. Really helpful and friendly. C&C is a cracking ruleset, I wish that company nothing but good luck. Even though I am set on trying DCC RPG after my current Hellfrost campaign winds up, I am sure I will play that system again someday, it was fun...very much in the style of AD&D but without a lot of the confusing and frankly (in my opinion) tedious rules that most people ignored anyway. It's a good time to be gaming