Which 10 other spells does the game need ?

[geordie racer]

I know there's a lot missing, but which other spells would you definitely want in the Core Rules - what's in your top ten and why ?

[Harley Stroh]

Great question!

//H

[meinvt]

I'll start with trying to just name 10 spells as general concepts:

1. Reincarnate - because randomly re-imbuing your comrades soul into some animal is awesome.
2. Wall of Fire - anything from a minor flaming barrier to a massive sphere of flaming death in the results
3. Feather Fall/Levitate/Fly - iconic set of spell abilities, could incorporate a sort of 'windwalk' result
4. Polymorph - self and others. Make it easy to adjudicate.
5. Scry - crystal ball gazing is classic
6. Dispel Magic - Yeah, I know it is in there, but I want it to be cool! Everything from counterspell to countering the magic sword. Maybe reversible to make magic (semi)-permanent?
7. Summon (several forms) - Patrons imply a deal is made. I want a way to simply summon lesser beings to do my dirty work.
8. Call Lightning - Again, iconic.
9. Curse - Let's make it interesting.. Perhaps a deity specific spell for each religion? With tables for dealing with random witches and shamans?
10. Mirror Image - Another classic.

Here is my other answer:

For an attempt to re-design magic in a game before I identified a number of magical aspects. Here are the key interesting ones I don't see yet, and the levels I think they reflect, at least as far as level 4 spells. Many of these could be different levels of success in a spell. Others are really multiple spell effects grouped.

Potential level 1 starting aspects:
Ward (Area/Alarm - Level 1; Object/Damage, Marks - Level 3)
Create (Fire, Fog, Force, Glue - Level 1; Acid, Webs, Locks - Level 2)
Winds - Level 3; Walls, Ice, Spheres - Level 4) = Mix and match to make a few interesting spells.
Movement - Individual (Jump, Climb, Fall - Level 1; Levitate - Level 2; Fly - Level 3)
Movement - Individual (Speed - Level 1; Haste - Level 4) = Could do levels of haste with d14, d16...
Alter/Hide (Appearance, Tracks - Level 1; Invisibility - Level 2; Improved - Level 3)
Message (Message/Send - Level 1; Magic Mouth - Level 2; Far - Level 3)

Potential level 2 starting aspects:
Create (Weapon, Armor, Trap - Level 2; Food and Water, Undead - level 3)
Portal (Pocket - Level 2; Local - Level 4)
Scry (Clairvoyance/Clairaudiance - Level 2, Nearby - Level 3, Far - Level 4)
Alter/Morph (Enhance Ability - Level 2; Breathing, Solidity - Level 3; Form - Level 4)
Summon (Lesser/minor - Level 2; Animals/Humanoids - Level 3; Major - Level 4)

Potential Level 3 aspects:
Dispel Magic, Create Magic (i.e. magical items)

Potential Level 4 aspects:
Reincarnate

[finarvyn]

I'm going to cheat. I'm not going to list off specific spells, but rather categories of spells as I see them. My rationalle is that if spells are more-or-less unique to the wizard, having a list of generic spells may not be so useful.

When I think of "Appendix N" magic, I tend to sort things into a couple of piles.
1. Relatively simple, every-day magic.
2. Really complex, big-time magic.
3. Nearly impossible, campaign scale magic.

The every-day magic would fit some of the stories where the protagonist can do cool stuff on a regular basis. Gandalf's multi-colored smoke rings or flaming pine cones could be examples of every-day magic. Cudgel the Clever has little cantrip spells that he casts. These spells wouldn't drain one's reserves much, although their quantity may be limited.

Big-time magic would be things that you would use against a really Big Baddie creature. Want to slay a dragon? Need to sunder a stone bridge before the Balrog can cross? Maybe summoning an elemental to defeat a monster for you would count. Stuff that would really drain you would fit this category.

Campaign-scale magic is mostly what the NPC Evil Wizard dude is trying to do. Maybe he wants to bring a 100,000 year old wizard back to life. Maybe he wants to cause a volcano to erupt to destroy the town. Maybe he is casting a "wizard eye" over the entire land to search for a magical item of power. These are spells that PCs would never have access to, and spells that force a person to pay a terrible price.

Anyway, that's the wasy I see magic in the literature. Clearly every fantasy world has its own rules and degrees of what can and cannot be done, but the above seem like decent guidelines. After the lower-level generic spell lists (which could probably be picked from the SRD or any edition of D&D), I think I'd be interested in seeing a "spell effects" system similar to the one in the DragonLance SAGA rules, where the caster can pick duration, range, effect, and so on for the spell, then count up the point cost.

[Aplus]

I would like to see awesome names for spells, like the ones in Dying Earth. (I just read it, but I can't remember them)

[geordie racer]

Any more lists - surely there's some spells that you hope'll make the cut ?

[oncelor]

Phantasmal Force
Monster Summoning
Invisibility
Levitate
Silence 15' Radius
Stone Shape
Animate Dead
Gust of Wind
Lightning Bolt
Dimension Door
Polymorph
Wall of Fire
Magic Jar
Telekinesis

[Tortog]

Mage Armor > where the spell check makes the the AC+ better as you go further along the chart; possibly even adding other benefits...

Bigby's Dexterous Digits > Thief/Mage's best friend > allows you to use fine motor skills remotely; @ up to 30ft {never made it to 3.x}

Animate object
Shape (wood,stone, etc.)
stone skin
Invisibility
Darkness
Cause Fear
Polymorph > where caster determines shape, but the dice check, and the severity of the transformation determines duration & how many of the "new shapes" powers you gain. i.e. basic success gives you the creatures basic modes of breathing and movement, etc. better results let you get the trolls regeneration or the Dragons Breath weapon.

Summon (specific creatures or beings) > but as a complicated ritual {read as: not while you are in combat} that brings something to this world that will stay until killed or banished.

I could probably list others, but I think I'll take a page from finarvyns' book and comment on spells in general.

In spite of the fact that I have had lots of fun with D&D over the years, I never liked the D&D magic system; not even at the beginning. It's been a long time since I read from the Appendix N crowd (so I could be wrong about this) but I don't recall Gandalf or the other wizards spending time memorizing spells from books every day... sure, they use incantations, gestures, materials, and strange rites; but no holding the party hostage to the need for regular sleep and study time, or spells per day.

I always thought that the "true speech" models set down by Ursula K. Le Guin (and more fully explored by Patricia A. McKillip's Riddle-Master trilogy) were much better systems. The Gods and powers spoke the world into existence & wizards are those who have learned their true names: then the names of as many other things as possible. the more true speech you know the more versatile your magic becomes. Under this model "spells/day" becomes a function of the wizards' willpower & stamina; as long as they keep making their willpower rolls they can keep casting, but as soon as they fail the willpower save they make a fortitude save. The DC is determined by how many spells have been cast up to that point: failure results in fatigue modifiers to future casting, brain hemorrhages, and beyond. Because, for wizards, death is sometimes the best option available...

Under the truename model the words of power become the equivalent of Lego Blocks; wizards are often found searching for new words & new ways to combine them. Sure it makes wizards scary-powerful, but there are severe dangers as well. If a wizard wishes to be invisible then he/she adds words to their truename to create the effects of "not being seen," but if they spend too much time in this "invisible" state, they risk it becoming permanent or worse if they phrase things in such a way that can have other meanings. Most gamers wouldn't see this as a down side, but when you consider that these kinds of effects build up over the course of the wizards life; kind of like Corruptions, that can make life horrific for the wizard. If the above wizard then accidentally gets "silence" added to his truename, then he effectively spends the rest of his life as a lonely ghost or angry poltergeist. The forests and lakes are full of "polymorphed" wizards that have forgotten that they were people once upon a time....

This truename model seems to fit nicely within the framework of the "Vancian" model. Since the Stats in DCC RPG are generally low, the need to have a strong Personality and Stamina requirement along with Intelligence would act to keep things from getting out of control.

anyways... just my 2 cents worth

[oncelor]

I forgot: Geas