DCC Urban Crawl

[Harley Stroh]

This is a thread for Mike and I to brainstorm ideas on the potential 2008 DCC anthology centering around urban adventures. Other folks are welcome to comment, but I'll be getting in touch with writers personally as we get closer to GenCon.

We'll be coming up with the "classic" urban crawls that every GM runs at some point, or would like to run. While 1 or 2 might be the expected (the sewer crawl, the dusty forgotten catacomb crawl), the bulk of the collection should be crawls that are truly urban in theme and tone.

Some design considerations for us to keep in mind:

-Most important: that we write material that the normal home GM can't come up with on her own. This requires solid mechanics, elegant (i.e. evocative but short) prose, and powerful themes/tone.

-While each crawl must demonstrate clear themes, the actual city must be generic. We'll be setting the adventures in DCC world cities, but we shouldn't focus on any uniquely Áereth detail. Freely use Áereth themes, but stay away from any particular that a GM can’t easily convert to their own home game.

-Whenever possible, work in leads to (or from) other DCCs.

-A city/urban area must be essential to the adventure. Avoid any planar adventures, etc.

- Dungeon crawls are always railroading the PCs whether they know it or not (“The room has only one exit, to the north”); PCs in urban areas have many more options open to them. Similarly, urban crawls will require a means of railroading that comes from the plot, not the GM.

So, enough of what you already know. Start spitting out ideas as they come to you.

[arlanni]

Harley,

This is a great idea, and long overdue for GG. The thought process should also be applied to "Wilderness Crawl Classics", along the lines of the Isle of Dread.

Instaed of Urban Crawl Classics (UCC), what about "City Sprawl Classics" (CSC#1, etc.). Sprawl is a term always used to describe cities, and heck it even rhymes with crawl!

Chris

[Mike_Ferguson]

I'm really looking forward to this. As Harley mentioned, it's a little more tricky to set up urban "dungeon crawls" - it's often too easy for the party to just open a door and walk out of the building when things get tough. Story and plot have to drive the adventure and become the railroad for action, not doors, monsters and traps. But I think it lets us explore a whole bunch of different adventure possibilities that really haven't been tapped yet with the DCCs yet (well, at least the ones I know about. ) Getting to create a "DCC Lankhmar" is just a really sweet opportunity.

I figured I'd try covering some generic city adventure types/conventions below, but in the meantime, I thought I'd just toss out some basic questions about the general direction of the project.

1) Should the anthology be set in one city, or multiple cities?

If it's all in one, it lets us *really* flesh out NPCs, guilds, etc. for any possible adventure interlude/gazetteer type material, but I could see how some DMs (a.k.a. the customers) might find the perception of "just one city" limiting. If we go for multiple cities, I think they need to all be in the same general kingdom or region, so we're not re-inventing the wheel with each new adventure/city - they can at least share some common information.

2) Should the anthology have a metaplot?

OK, I normally *hate* metaplots, and I think the DCCs are largely successful because they don't have any ... but I like the idea of an anthology that's connected, like the old "Slavers" series. The trick would be to let the metaplot be loose enough to where DMs can run each adventure as a stand-alone without any problems, or rip out the metaplot without too much difficulty. Metaplots, IMO, become problems when you *have* to run an adventure according how they're written. If we can strike that nice balance between "the metaplot is really cool and helpful ... but totally optional", I think it's worth trying.

Also - the city structure just lends itself to a metaplot. Running into the same recurring NPC villains in different dungeons rarely makes sense. But if they're all in Archbridge? Well, running into the evil Count Dastardly over and over again suddenly becomes plausible.

Feel free to chime in with answers and ideas, or add in your own questions.

And Chris? An Isle of Dread "Wilderness Crawl Classic" sounds awesome as well.

[Mike_Ferguson]

OK - so here's some conventional urban adventure ideas that I can think of. I know a few of these have been used already, but even so, maybe there's a way we could put a different spin on something that seems "been there, done that".

1) Adventure in the sewers/catacombs
2) Quest for a guild - PCs do something on the behalf of a Wizards or Thieves' Guild
3) PCs wrongfully accused of a crime, have to evade the law and prove their innocence
4) PCs vs. Slavers
5) PCs have to fight in gladiator pits
6) Serial killer stalks the city
7) Extravagent thief steals from the rich, PCs need to hunt him down
8 ) Evil cultists lurking in the city
9) Kidnapped princess/merchant's daughter
10) Evil nobleman oppresses the masses, needs to be stopped
11) Adventure in abandoned tower/building in derelict part of tower
12) Adventure along the docks/wharf side of the city
13) Adventure in a prison (abandoned, or not)

After writing this fast list, it's occurred to me how many of them can be combined (kidnapped princess was nabbed by slavers, and PCs must fight in gladiator pit to win the trust of the slavers in order to engineer a successful rescue). I'm sure I'll think of more after I break out "Ill Met in Lankhmar" later tonight.

Don't know yet if this becomes the idea list for "Adventure Ideas to Use" or "Adventure Cliches to Avoid" ... but thought it'd be good for starters.

[Jengenritz]

Color me interested as well. Love me some city-crawl.

Loose meta-plot is cool. It could be constructed as a series of "if-then" statements, so the PCs have the freedom to act as they choose, but the GM has an idea of where to go in case a consistent thread seems to appear in the adventures.
Plus, it makes sense that the city would react to the actions of the party.

I think one city is the way to go, but that's a serious preference of mine. An adventure cycle based in one city with the possibility of remote locations (like that shack in the woods, or the abandoned outpost in the mountains, etc) or even trips to other cities ("get this letter to Duke Ranides in the capital by noon three days hence!") would be fun.

You know...you keep mentioning Lankhmar, which makes me think of Thieves World...this project could be envisioned as a "shared world" book...with different authors writing different "chapters" (each adventure)...hmmm...
...tying this in to the metaplot discussion...you identify three possible arcs of plot, and write adventures for each one...this makes it like a Choose-Your-Own Adventure book...or more accurately, a sequence of linked CYOA books, where the resolution of A leads to books D, E, or F.

Personally, I'm a huge fan of having (seemingly) inconsequential decisions or decisions having unforeseen (tragic or beneficial) consequences.

In DCCs, the NPCs (in general) are there to be killed, so putting us in an urban setting by necessity means we're going to have to approach this differently...unless we're writing for a sociopathic party.

And yeah, we can easily combine any/all of these standby plots.

One of the coolest books I've read in a good long while was Perdido Street Station by China Miéville...although it took place on another planet and with alien races, it was a fantastic example of citycrawl adventuring.

For a cohesive city-based game, I (personally) think it's cool to have developed background stuff that the pary can get involved in or not, but has consequences one way or the other.
These are essentially adventure hooks that have consequences if they aren't resolved...
At the onset there are three adventure hooks:
- the tailors on Needle Street are troubled by mysterious fires
- charges of corruption and deviltry lead to the imprisonment of the Dawngate guard captain, but he protests his innocence, and his family is willing to pay adventurers to prove it
- a wealthy merchant's daughter is marrying Baron Anfast's middle son, but a crucial part of the dowry is a precious ring that was stolen by our jewel thief...no dowry means no wedding

If each is not resolved by the party in X time...
- Needle Street goes up in a conflagration...prices of clothing-based magic items increases 200%
- some other, rival party of adventurers proves the captain's innocence, gaining acclaim in the city
- some other merchant's daughter marries the Baron's son, but this guy is way evil and kills the Baron's older sons, making his son-in-law in line to be the new Baron

Stuff like that...a living environment for the party to explore.

Hey, this ran long. Sorry.

[Mike_Ferguson]

Hey, this ran long. Sorry.

No need to apologize. Lots of good stuff there.

Like the Thieves' World analogy - that's how I see this as well. And I think it'd take some careful mapping, but I like the "choose your own adventure" metaplot-linking as well. It would make this something a group could play through a few times with different results.

You also touched on one of the main differences that (to me) makes the "urban crawl" different than a stock dungeon crawl - namely, the authorities. If a group acts sociopathic in a dungeon, there's really no consequences. Everything in the dungeon tends to be murderous and evil, and nobody's charging the player characters with murder for killing the orc tribe and taking their loot.

But if a group decides that they have to steal the Ruby of Doom from the Evil Prince's Tower - you know, the Tower that's attached to the king's castle in the middle of the city - there can be serious consequences for the group, and not good ones. Even if what the player characters want to accomplish is good, it's not not necessarily legal. And lots of NPCs may not believe that the players have good intentions.

I played in a city-based AD&D campaign for many years - it was very different from dungeon crawls. You learned pretty quickly that in a city crawling with town guards as well as the monsters in the sewers, fireball needed to be your last option, not your first.

I think these adventures may have to cover two basic things we generally have the luxury of ignoring in regular DCCs: (1) the potential consequences of killing NPCs and causing mass property damage, and (2) rewarding stealth over brute force.

[Harley Stroh]

Sorry to stomp on the conversation ... but.

While a one city product appeals to me (I bought the old Chaosium Thieves World boxed set as prep for this project --- did you know Arneson is credited with some of the writing?) we're not in a position to compete with Ptolus; more importantly, we need to remember that the majority of DCC GMs use our adventures because they can be dropped into any world (including Ptolus). Setting an entire book in Punjar (and lord knows I'd love to) isn't true to this vision --- we need to stay applicable to as many home games as possible.

Same too, for metaplot: It's not what DCCs are about. Doesn't mean these are bad ideas (to the contrary, they are good ideas) but we are writing DCCs (or maybe Dungeon/Sprawl Classics) so we need to make sure that our adventures always do what it says on the cover.

BUT, I think there is a middle ground:

A small team of writers creates a variety of adventures that can be set in a variety of setting-neutral cities. Then, in the appendix, we do a SHORT (5k) section on how they can all be incorporated into a single campaign, ala the adventure paths in the back of DCC 35. This might include a 1 page city map, SPARSE city info and just enough detail to get the setting folks hungry for more, but not so much that we have folks alleging that we’ve created a book that requires “DCC World” to use.

Mike, re: Cliches to Use/Not Use.

I’m in danger of pontificating, but here’s my take. DCCs are all - by necessity - “clichés,” or at least in danger of being clichés. But when tackled by an evocative author who invests that particular situation with life, the cliché becomes new again. By a lesser writer, anything about sewers and thieves guilds and lost vaults would be hackneyed and stale. But we’re better than that. We can take the “cave with orcs” and turn it into something players will be talking about for months.

//H

[Mike_Ferguson]

Sorry to stomp on the conversation ... but.

Hey, no worries ... I don't see this as a stomp at all. It's clarification.

We're early enough in this process to where the sky's the limit. I thought it might be good to throw out some ideas and see what direction this project needs to travel. Your post gives great direction for the creative end - use a variety of cities (so don't toss every adventure in Archbridge), keep things neutral, metaplot (if any) should be minimal and definitely optional.

Mike, re: Cliches to Use/Not Use.

Got it. That's usually been my take on the DCC philosophy anyway - take a given cliche or a old AD&D standard and try to write an updated and hopefully clever, memorable take on that old standard. Trying to jot down the "usual" suspects for urban adventures is my way of throwing stuff against the wall to see what sticks. Also ... if anything's also been done before, we can note it and hopefully avoid it. (For example, crazed supernatural killer is stalking the town has already been done in "Legend of the Ripper".)

(and glad you have the Chaosium Thieves' World stuff. It should be great inspiration. I need to go in the attic this weekend to find it, as well as the old TSR Lankhmar-licensed stuff I have somewhere.)

[Harley Stroh]

Nods....the old Lankhmar stuff rocks. Especially the map section, with the detailed block/alley maps. This is something we should draw on. A block can be dropped into any city and ta-da! Instant adventure.

I'm also going back to the 1e DMG city random encounter tables. We'll see how that goes. I seem to recall vampires and demon lords at the 00 entry of the table....

//H

[Jengenritz]

City-State of the Invincible Overlord...I had that as a kid. Loved it to death.

And my post was a shotgun approach...good to have people to whittle it down.

but not so much that we have folks alleging that we’ve created a book that requires “DCC World” to use.

D'oh!

So the next step is assemble the team, eh?

[Mike_Ferguson]

So, to recap the project parameters, this will be:

1) A series of urban based city adventures
2) Adventures to be written for a variety of levels and set in different cities of the DCC World (though generic enough to be dumped in *any* campaign city)
3) No "deliberate" connection between adventures - they should essentially be independent of one another, with a possible short 'n' sweet "Saga of the Dragon Cult" type gazetteer providing optional loose connecting material.
4) Focus really is the adventures themselves - we're not doing too much at all with specific city-type supplemental material (guilds, NPCs, etc.).

[Jeff LaSala]

Not sure if I'm intruding here...

I think it would be good if this book anthology did present the adventures as all taking place within the same city (with sidebars or at least brief references throughout to a specific city or two on Áereth that the adventures could easily fit into). Yet the city would be presented generically enough so that GMs can easily use their own.

I think the best city adventures would tie together such that adventure A can connect to adventure B but without requiring them to. For example, the thieves guild the PCs must infiltrate in adventure C is where the villainous rogue in adventure D came from. The mad villain in adventure E broke out of the very same asylum the PCs explore the basement of in adventure F. And so on. So they're easy to tie together without it needing to be so.

I'm probably just echoing everyone else, though.

One of the coolest books I've read in a good long while was Perdido Street Station by China Miéville...although it took place on another planet and with alien races, it was a fantastic example of citycrawl adventuring

I'm just finishing this now. I concur.

[Harley Stroh]

Nice recap, Mike. That's exactly right.

At most, an adventure should necessitate a 500 word "setting-specific sidebar" where we detail a particular guild, NPC, holiday, mechanics for 0-lvl characters, etc. But it should be key to the adventure, not simply detailing the setting.

The only other consideration I can think of right now is that we will specifically outline the adventures’ levels prior to writing.

A level breakdown something along the lines of 5 adventures will probably look something like this:

0-1, 1-3, 4-6, 7-9, and 10-13.

A lot of this will depend on how our word count breaks out. Joseph told me the total for a hardbound, but I need to track down the numbers again.

Finally, I'd really like to take the time to make this project rock (hence the early planning stages). A lot of what we've done recently has been rushed. I want this one to glow --- every word should be right where it needs to be.

//H

[Mike_Ferguson]

I think it would be good if this book anthology did present the adventures as all taking place within the same city (with sidebars or at least brief references throughout to a specific city or two on Áereth that the adventures could easily fit into). Yet the city would be presented generically enough so that GMs can easily use their own.

I was originally of the same mindset - I thought it would be cool to set everything in Archbridge, or some other huge city in the DCC World. That way, we could each add a small amount of supplemental material to each adventure, which could flesh out that one city quite nicely throughout the anthology.

In thinking about it, though, I like covering various cities in the DCC World. It doesn't limit the possible supplemental material as much. We may be able to cover some other areas of the DCC World (like cities in the Lostlands or Southlands) that might not ordinarily get any sort of gazetteer-type coverage.

Also, if we cover just one city, I think we run the risk of fans thinking this is the "DCC Ptolus". Not true, of course, but I think that might become the perception (and the expectation), rightly or wrongly.

I'm good either way, though.

[Harley Stroh]

DCC fans have proven themselves incredibly "cannon conscious." If we limit an entire product to one city, that's the city they'll use it for, and folks not in that region of Áereth won't use it. If we offer up 5 shorter adventures in 5 cities, they'll be more apt to use the adventures wherever their campaign happens to be at.

If we focus on one city, we'd be silly not to detail that city, and that's really not what this collection is about.

This isn't a city book. This is a book of adventures set in cities.

//H

[Jeff LaSala]

I get that reasoning, definitely. And I know the city adventures should be the focus, not the city in question. But it sort of makes me want to ask, why is Castle Whiterock given a location in Áereth at all? People can use the dungeon wherever they want in their campaign (and likely will anyway). Why choose a specific region in Áereth?

Now that we've defined the Known Realms that all DCCs are (or can be) set in, it seems silly to leave them out altogether. In the very least, I'd recommend naming specific factions/guilds/buildings within the adventures and cross-referencing them with each other so that they could all be set in the same city. As to what city, it doesn't matter. It would be nice to offer suggestions (like Archbridge), but it wouldn't have to be concrete.

How does this anthology compare to the Adventure Begins-type anthologies?

[Harley Stroh]

Now that we've defined the Known Realms that all DCCs are (or can be) set in, it seems silly to leave them out altogether.

My previous posts must have been been misleading. To be clear, each adventure will be set in a city of Áereth and be accompanied by a map block/brief description of the location.

All the adventures will take place in Áereth; none of them will require DCC #35 to be played.

In the very least, I'd recommend naming specific factions/guilds/buildings within the adventures and cross-referencing them with each other so that they could all be set in the same city.

Again, I must have left a confusing quote. Above I wrote:

Then, in the appendix, we do a SHORT (5k) section on how they can all be incorporated into a single campaign, ala the adventure paths in the back of DCC 35. This might include a 1 page city map, SPARSE city info and just enough detail to get the setting folks hungry for more, but not so much that we have folks alleging that we’ve created a book that requires “DCC World” to use.

...which, I believe, is the same thing you suggested.

[Jeff LaSala]

You're right, Harley. I guess I merely paraphrased the same thing.

This might include a 1 page city map, SPARSE city info and just enough detail to get the setting folks hungry for more

Would this city info be materail just for purposes of the anthology's generic city, or would they be attributed to something actually within the Known Realms?

[Harley Stroh]

Would this city info be materail just for purposes of the anthology's generic city, or would they be attributed to something actually within the Known Realms?

Not a generic city. An established city in the Known Realms.

[Mike_Ferguson]

So I started brainstorming ideas for the potential adventures in this project ... I realized, though, that we'd never talked about the actual length of these adventures.

Are we looking at something like the Adventure Begins/Adventure Continues (max of 12,000 words) for each adventure in this compilation, or something more like the "standard" DCC length (20,000 - 24,000 words)?

I'm guessing more the latter, since the five adventure length got mentioned somewhere up thread. But thought it might be good to confirm.

Myself, I guess I was seeing this as six adventures. Namely:

0-1: 10,000 words (zero-level adventures generally can't go much higher than this anyway.
1-3: 22,000 words
4-6: 22,000 words
7-9: 22,000 words
10-12: 22,000 words
13-15: 22,000 words (thought maybe we could address the 'where are the super-high level adventures?' questions with this.)

"Extra" adventure/DCC gazetteer-type material: 5,000 words

This gives a project of 125,000 words, roughly ... so a book between 200 and 224 pages, give or take.

[Harley Stroh]

Mike,

We'll be tailoring the word counts to the adventure level (longer stat blocks and all) but I'm pretty sure a hardback page total is substantially shorter that what you've calculated. I'll check with Joseph to be sure, so we know where we are headed.

//H

[Rick Maffei]

Many interesting posts here about a very interesting project.
You folks had me laying on my stomach in my folks’ attic yesterday, breathing ancient dust and crawling beneath outdated 70s fashions, searching in vain for my old Lankhmar modules—I hope you’re proud of yourselves.

A possible idea would be adding a very short intro before the first adventure, maybe a single page, offering tips on running urban crawls for the GM. Running urban adventures properly is tough.
As Harley mentions, dungeon crawls are always railroading the PCs to some degree. Even wilderness adventures can be controlled (Harley’s own use of the bloodthorn in DCC #35A to create wilderness “hallways” to channel the PCs is a good example), but urban adventures are probably the most challenging of all, short of outer-plane adventuring. A few words of advice for the beleaguered GM might be in order, and it would offer the reader a smooth "entry" to the book.

Harley, any word (no pun intended) as to the target word counts?
I can definitely see the word counts going up in time with the increasing levels, especially for levels above 9th.
The "loose" nature of urban adventures might also warrant a few extra words to cover the odd things PCs might do. If you, wearing the GM hat, have ever turned your players loose in a big city like Greyhawk or Waterdeep et al., you know the story—the PCs can literally go in almost any direction (if your players are anything like mine) despite the breadcrumbs you drop. It might be prudent to asssume some additional text to assist the GM will be needed in some of the adventures.

[Mike_Ferguson]

Something else to consider ...

After skimming through some of the Lankhmar stuff I found lying around in storage, I think many of these adventures (depending on story) may need a set-up similar to "Into the Wilds" - meaning that the order of encounters needs to be less critical than in a standard dungeon crawl.

Typical DCC means after you go through level one of the labyrinth, you head down to level two and continue. Then to three, and four, and so on. The order's always controlled and obvious.

An urban structure, though, may necessitate a few starter threads for the adventure. Depending on what the players find and/or decide to do, they can head off to Area A first, or Area B, or Area C - wthatever they decide. The starting point shouldn't matter nearly as much.

However, if the players start at Area C, they should find clues that they still need to search/explore/loot Areas A and B at some point ... because the climax of the adventure takes place in Area D, and they'll need things from each of the areas in order to take on that final encounter. (Or they should at least think that, even if it's not necessarily true).

We need to make sure that the adventures head to their planned endings with little room for distraction ... but the path towards getting to those endings has to be slightly more flexible than usual.

[Harley Stroh]

Sorry, no word count totals yet. Project is still a ways off and honestly, with Whiterock and the tournament on my hands, I'm going to be fairly worthless for the next 2 months. But read on, and you'll see why it is important to begin so early.

Re: how the heck does one write an urban DCC?

This is the true crux of the project. We're not just putting together some DCCs here --- we're actively taking a step into a place where DCCs don't ever go....the alley. This is a design issue that cannot be understated. It needs to look, smell and play like a DCC, but in an entirely different set of setting issues. That's no small feat. A lot of our lessons are going to come from actual the writing, so be prepared to junk a fair amount of words as needed. As the first real urban DCCs, the collection needs to be first rate, setting the tone for others that may follow.

Just as a heads up, this is going to require a ton of play testing on our part, probably with the writing/design team exchanging adventures between our groups just to try to break the adventure. As writers, we can't account for every possiblity in the City, so we need to insert in-game reasons as to why a PC's choices are limited. Some overt (the mad priest's geas only allows me to talk to beggars) but most subtle. Readers are going to be on us like lice on an urchin if they see every adventure railroading the PCs, so we'll need to be sneaky.

The place to begin is here: Mike and Rick, when you have time in the next couple months, dream up the 1-3 urban adventures that you would kill to play/write.

Think the Lankhmar stories, the Thieves World books, the urban Conan stories. Plan for around 15,000 words or less. Let me know what you come up with, and send the ideas my way. We'll pick one or two to begin with, and go from there.

Then, as Whiterock is winding down, and the tournament is set and ready to play, we can begin to design in earnest, working off of the lessons that you guys earned.

Thoughts?
//H



=====
Some more design thoughts. You guys know all this but I'll repeat it for the sake of working it out in my head.

In a good DCC, the dungeon is an active "character." The walls, ceilings, floors, air, smells, tastes and sounds are specific to that one dungeon. (I don't do this enough in my own writing, but I should.)

Similarly, in an urban DCC the streets, buildings, alleys, sounds, tastes, smells, etc. should be a vital part of your adventure.

This is does NOT mean that the setting details should be "weird" (bad weird, not the good "eldritch wizardry" weird). Remember that these need to be fairly generic urban settings.

Making the setting crucial can be as simple as setting your adventure near a slaughter house. The air stinks of rotting flesh, watered down pigs blood runs down the center of the alley, and the scritching of millions of rat can be heard in the halls (and heaven forbid if you decide to spend the night there). All simple mundane details, but the sort of thing that will make your writing sing.

[Rick Maffei]

You hit the nail on the head, Mike. The first word that jumped into my head when I heard about this project was "non-linear" -- urban adventures tend to be multi-directional if they are of a good length. Lakofka's The Assassin's Knot is a good example, if my memory holds (gotta dig that out too)—the PCs can go in three directions, in any order, to solve a murder. It's a challenge to write these "loose" (as I call them) adventures, to be sure.

Harley: The plan sounds like a good one.
We can spend the next few months coming up with possible adventures and occasionally idea bashing here. Kindly provide elucidation when needed in the meantime!

I totally hear you on the slaughter house point too (and nice example). Richard Pett's fairly recent Dungeon adventure, "The Styes," was hugely popular and I consider its creepy, detailed setting to be key to its success. It almost had a Lovecraftian air to it, yet it didn't wander far from standard rule territory or get too bizarre.
To quote myself from Dragon #232 (1996!): "What made the 'oldie' modules such as the 'S' and 'G/D' series great was atmosphere, coupled with detailed lairs and monster tactics."
We'll inject atmosphere into this baby.