MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

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Melfast
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MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Melfast » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:03 am

Greetings Fellow Travelers on the Barren Wastes,

While I was looking through things on the forum, I came across the 2017 MCC Core Book Errata Part 2 post made for the 2nd printing of the MCC Core Book, and it got me to thinking about what errata there might be for the 3rd printing of the book or an updated PDF.

So, I went through the 2017 errata, identified the ones that had not been corrected in the 2d edition printing, and added some new errata candidates.

In addition to rules errata, I think there are also some unclear MCC rules, and there a couple of omitted rules from DCC that it would make sense to me to port over to MCC (either to fill rules gaps or to further make the rules more aligned) when they do a 3rd printing.

The PDF at this link has my list, a link to the original 2017 post, and at the end of the document is the list of all the errata that were corrected from that original post (in case you were curious): https://1drv.ms/b/s!Ak88KIALsgrVif0QUMy ... w?e=PHbmes

I am going to put my list into the next reply to this post, so you don't have to look at the PDF.

What other errata or suggestions do you have for a 3rd printing of the MCC Core Book?

Happy gaming...

-- Melfast

Melfast
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Melfast » Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:09 am

MCC CORE BOOK 2ND PRINTING ERRATA

Started with the post gathering the errata part 2 for the revised corebook on 082417: https://goodman-games.com/forums/viewto ... 8&start=25

Uncorrected Errata from this list (updated where needed for changes in page numbers, where it wasn’t clear what the errata was, etc.):

Page 22, "...will be assigned the plumb role of tribal “Seeker.” plumb should be plum.
Pp 28-38 Tables for the Character Classes are misnumbered (except for Sentinel):
P 28: Table 2-2 should say Table 2-3
P 30: Table 2-3 should say Table 2-5
P 32: Table 2-4 should say Table 2-7
P 32: Table 2-6 should say 2-8
P 34: Table 2-5 should say 2-9
P 36: Table 2-6 should say 2-11
P 38: Table 2-7 should say 2-13
P 38: Table 2-12 should say 2-14
P 28, Shamans -- Artifacts: “Shamans have a natural affinity for understanding the artifacts of the ancients, resulting in an added bonus to artifact checks (see Table 2-2).” This should say Table 2-3.
Page 30, Healers -- Artifacts: “Healers have a natural affinity for understanding the artifacts of the ancients, resulting in an added bonus to Artifact checks (see Table 2-3).” This should say Table 2-5.
Page 30, Healers -- Naturopathy: “A healer may use these techniques 2x per day per level (see Table 2-3).” This should say Table 2-5.
Page 32, Rovers -- Artifacts: “Rovers have a natural affinity for understanding the artifacts of the ancients, resulting in an added bonus to Artifact checks (see Table 2-4).” This should say Table 2-8.
Page 32, Rovers -- Artifact Doors and Security Systems: “Being quite stealthy individuals, rovers have increased chances of remaining undetected by ancient security systems, or even other mutants (see Table 2-4).” This should say Table 2-8.
Page 34, Mutants -- Artifacts: Mutants have some affinity for the artifacts of the ancients, giving them medium-ranged bonuses to Artifact checks (see Table 3-2). This should say Table 2-9.
Page 42, Metagenesis -- column 2, 2nd paragraph: "Then determine if it the mutation is in the active or passive category (see individual mutation description)." -- "it" should be removed
Page 57, New Body Parts, result 2-11: "antennae" --> "antenna" and "gills" --> "gill"
Page 70, Empathy, result 28-29: "whose advise" --> "whose advice".
Page 102, Anaerobic, Result 2-13: "manifestation" needs closing parenthesis.
Page 171 Holo=Cloak in Table 7-2 should be Holo-Cloak
Page 173, Gauzer rifle, last sentence: "at to 10 multiple..." should read "at 10 multiple..." or "at up to 10...."
Page 180, “The holo cloak is comprised of a web…” Holo-Cloak should be hyphenated
Page 184, Gene Resequencer. "...use the table at right to determine the outcome...", The table is not "at right", it's on the next page, page 185. Should be “use Table 7-5 to determine the outcome” or “use table 7-5 on page 185 to determine the outcome.”
Pg. 191, "mega fauna" and "mega-fauna" are both used. "Mega-fauna" is also used on pg. 9. Should be "megafauna."
Page 195, under Pyrosome: In both the stat block and the description the word "envelope" should be "envelop".
Page 197, under Tetravalent: In the stat block "envelope" should be "envelop".
Page 258, UKUR Trans-Replication Program Results for 30-33: "... into the aether the planet’s electromagnetic field...", should be an "of" after "aether" so it reads “into the aether of the the planet's…".

NEW ERRATA
Page 10, Roll of 1, Automatic Failures with mutations and wetware checks: they are implied in the rules, but an automatic failure with a bad effect is not stated anywhere except for fumbles. Without this rule, it is not possible to roll a 1 on a mutation or wetware check, because you always add your level to your check roll. Add the following on page 10 or other place that makes sense, “A mutation or wetware check result of a natural 1 is always a failure. A result of 1 may also result in Patron Taint or acquiring a defect as indicated by the result on the table the character is using for the check.”
Page 10, Roll of 20, Critical Success with wetware and mutations: They are implied in the rules since “As noted elsewhere, wetware programs in MCC RPG are functionally equivalent to spells in DCC RPG” and mutations and wetware have the same basic mechanic in MCC. Add the following on page 10 or other place that makes sense, “A mutation or wetware check result of a natural 20 is a critical success. The character receives an additional bonus to that check equal to their level.”
Page 14, "Roll for beginning profession and equipment" Profession should be occupation.
Page 15, Agility, references Two-weapon fighting: “… as well as the ability to fight with a weapon in each hand.” There are no two-weapon fighting rules in the book. Import the ones from DCC.
Page 16, "Additional beginning equipment is rolled after determining profession" Profession should be occupation.
Page 17, Table 1-4, Beginning Equipment: missing initiative rule to be compatible with DCC, add * after Bow and Stone Axe, and add a footnote on the table “* Two-handed weapon. Characters using two-handed weapons use a d16 on initiative checks.”

COMMENTS / SUGGESTIONS FOR RULES CLARIFICATIONS AND ADDITIONS
Shaman Programs, it is not clear how to determine what wetware programs Shamans get. Either expand the results of Invoke AI Patron Bond to identify what Patron AI wetware Shaman can get or add a table with instructions showing how to determine Shaman wetware programs as the Shaman levels up. This is the number one question on the Goodman Games MCC Message Board, and there is no clear answer.

MCC uses a lot of the rules from DCC, which it should as the two are 100% compatible. However, there are rules in DCC that seem like they should have been ported over into MCC that weren’t, for example: allowing some classes (Sentinel and Manimal?) in MCC to use a Luck point to avoid a fumble like the Warrior and Dwarf in DCC; allowing Shaman to burn Luck to avoid Patron Taint like Wizards can use Luck to avoid corruption; and allowing characters using mutations to burn Luck to avoid defects like Wizards can use Luck to avoid corruption. Good opportunity to add them in the next edition.

Recommended Wording for ported rules:

Luck to avoid Fumbles: “Sentinels and Manimals, and only Sentinels and Manimals, may burn 1 point of Luck to cancel a roll on table 4-2: Fumbles. The natural 1 still results in a miss but by burning a point of Luck they can avoid any further negative effects.”

Luck to avoid Patron Taint: “A Shaman that suffers Patron Taint may burn a point of Luck to avoid the taint. The Luck can be burned after the player rolls to determine the specific corruption result. The natural 1 still results in a check failure and losing the program but by burning a point of Luck they can avoid any further negative effects.”

Luck to avoid acquiring a defect: “A character that rolls a 1 on a mutation check may burn a point of Luck to avoid the defect normally acquired. The Luck can be burned after the player rolls to determine the specific defect result. The natural 1 still results in a check failure and losing the mutation but by burning a point of Luck they can avoid any further negative effects. A character cannot use Luck to avoid acquiring a defect as the result of Radburn (see p. 42 of the MCC core book).”

Happy gaming...

- Melfast

maceo_the_escher
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by maceo_the_escher » Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am

Good points! There are a few other miscellaneous things I have found that also need clarification-and I've only started playing recently. For instance the Telekinesis mutation says it works with "the equivalent force of a X Strength" but there's nothing in MCC or DCC that gives weight allowances for Strength. How much can a 12 Strength lift vs. 15 Strength? I will use the 3E SRD for that info but it should be added. Or like you mentioned the dual-wielding mechanics. The chart is already made!

There's other areas that could arguably be revisited/revised. I was looking over the Children of the Glow archaic alignment and the +5 mutation check bonus it provides which seems out of place compared to the minor benefits of the other alignments.

As a relatively new purchaser of the products I do get the impression that the system just isn't fully supported anymore and the community is not very active. I saw this review on the MCC Core book page of drivethrurpg from this year and sadly I think it summarizes what many people feel:

"...a half-concocted idea built on the bare bones of a very well done game (DCC). The only posts ever made on the official MCC forums are questions about the mechanics, which are never answered because MCC's author no longer works for Goodman Games and no one else at GG cares to acknowledge MCC's existence. They have all but quit supporting the game."

That's not good to have on your product page and it's something that could easily be fixed with minor attention given to the product. Just look at my intro forum post from a few months back 1300+ views and not one person responded.

I'm glad to see your posts here and your activity, along with another person I have been talking to from the MCC Facebook group, have been very encouraging so Thank You!

Pipeline
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Pipeline » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:40 pm

maceo_the_escher wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am
As a relatively new purchaser of the products I do get the impression that the system just isn't fully supported anymore and the community is not very active.
There is an official MCC adventure coming out soon. Find an announcement on this very forum.

Enchiridion of the Computarchs has been arriving in mailboxes all this week.

Here is the original author continuing to support the space: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ch ... arbarian-1 Mine arrived last weekend.

edit

Forgot about the DCC Day 2020 Adventure Pack just released on November 4.

- art is the most important human pursuit
Last edited by Pipeline on Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Melfast
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Melfast » Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:44 pm

Hey maceo_the_escher

Like you, I am relatively new to MCC/DCC. DCC Lankhmar is when I first got interested in DCC, and that was after the Kickstarter. That led me to DCC in general, and then to MCC, of which I am a fan -- it reminds me of MA and Gamma World, but with better mechanics. I enjoy the approach to explaining the world with smart metal, hard air, artifacts of the ancients, and mysteries.

As far as MCC goes, I think it lost some momentum as other projects came about, and then COVID19 hit. Joe Goodman has said in his "what's New with Goodman Games" presentations that they have more in the pipeline for MCC. I think Jim Wampler leaving also led to less emphasis. (Jim has put out two MCC compatible supplements, and just ran MCC at a recent Con, so he is not completely disengaged from his creation.) I agree with you that Goodman Games could get the wind back under MCC with some more attention. It is a good game, and the flaws are relatively easy to fix.

As far as the rules gaps or questions go, while Sage Advice is regularly published to clean up DND 5th edition rules questions and errata, Goodman Games has always seemed to feel that Judges can fill in or reconcile any gray areas or conflicts in the rules. They will fix typos in later printings, but I don't think we can expect to have Goodman Games folks come on the forum to provide answers or errata. (I'm hoping they will address Shamans at some point in a 3rd edition printing or in an adventure or some such. Shamans are the one big rules gap to my mind that holds the game back and makes people say the rules are incomplete.) We players and Judges need to help each other.

As far as the MCC community is concerned, it would be great to have more participation on these boards, or the Facebook, Reddit or MeWe pages. However, I think the pandemic has put the damper on a lot of people's interest in playing a post-apocalyptic game -- too close to home at the moment. I remember seeing somewhere that is the reason why the Glowburn podcast is on hiatus. I hope people will be more interested and engaged when we are post-pandemic / post-election, etc.

In the meantime, I want to see MCC do well, and I want to contribute to it. As we talk about things on the board and other places, I think other people will do it more too. If we can get 3-5 active people, I think this board will be a great resource, community and fun place to check in and ask questions. Jim has said he wanted to have a happy post-apocalypse when he made MCC, and I think that is a great approach to what would otherwise be a grim survival game.

I'm glad you're on the board, and we will get more people as we go along. Based on views, there is interest, and there are too many people with good ideas out there to share to not get more postings at some point.

Happy gaming...

-- Melfast

Melfast
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Melfast » Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:25 pm

Pipeline wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 10:40 pm
maceo_the_escher wrote:
Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am
As a relatively new purchaser of the products I do get the impression that the system just isn't fully supported anymore and the community is not very active.
There is an official MCC adventure coming out soon. Find an announcement on this very forum.

Enchiridion of the Computarchs has been arriving in mailboxes all this week.

Here is the original author continuing to support the space: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/ch ... arbarian-1 Mine arrived last weekend.
Edit: I stand corrected. Pipeline is absolutely correct in his note above, there was an MCC adventure in the 2020 DCC Day Adventure Pack. I was thinking stand-alone products when I originally wrote below that Goodman did not have any MCC products in 2020. I have fixed it. Thanks for pointing that out!

--------------------------------------------

Hey Pipeline

Thanks for providing those. They are all encouraging. 3PP have done a great job of producing MCC products while Goodman Games works on other projects.

The MCC second edition came out with MCC-09 in Sep 2018. MCC-10 came out in Oct 2019. There was an adventure in the 2020 DCC Day Adventure Pack, but not a stand-alone product. MCC-11 is expected in 2021.

As Goodman Games gets some free bandwidth in 2021, I hope they will be able to put momentum behind the game, and I think when the do they need to address the most significant rule issue brought up on this board and other places that has a major part in creating some of the negative perceptions of MCC that are out there and may lead people to not pick up the game. Which is a shame, because I think it is a fun and interesting game.

Enchiridion of the Computarchs basically got Kickstarted because MCC's Shaman rules are a mess. I don't think a 3PP should be necessary to play the game. The rules clarifications to fix the Shaman would probably be pretty quick to develop, and could be posted as errata on the Goodman web site (I know they don't generally do errata, but they did for the initial edition of DCC when it first came out). Several ideas have been floated on this board. Jim Wampler did a whole new class in one of his post-Goodman Games products with a Patron AI Bond result table that could be reasonably easily adapted to the Shaman. Regardless, the game will be considered unsatisfactory by many players as long as one of more popular classes, and the only one that really uses the Patron AI in the book, is not made more playable and clear.

I am bullish on MCC's future. I am looking forward to MCC gaining in popularity and interest. We the community have a big share of that, and I look forward to Goodman Games helping us build the game.

Happy gaming...

- Melfast

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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by The Disgruntled Poet » Thu Nov 19, 2020 7:54 pm

Great discussion guys. Question on perception of the Shaman.

I agree people don't understand the class and there is confusion. I think the source of the confusion is that people think it's going to be like a DCC Wizard, but it's very different. It's as if the DCC Wizard/Elf class had ONLY patron spells and no other spells. Meaning that it is /should be far less spell (wetware) dependent than Wizards are. In theory, this should be balanced out by the Shaman's superior artifact checks and other PSH bonuses. I think the Shaman's design assumes a campaign where artifacts are plentiful and the Shaman will get the pick of the loot (since Shamans will be asked to check them...) This assumption is kind of subtle and IIRC not explicitly said in the rules, so I hardly blame people for confusion.

I feel like the Shaman's not that confusing after you stop wanting it to be the MCC Wizard class. The rolls you need to get even ONE Wetware program are very aggressive, but of course they assumed PCs would Glowburn/Luckburn hugely on this all-important roll. From there, we might be talking about whether the Shaman is underpowered vs. other characters (or whether the game RAW explicitly emphasizes how they should be balanced power-wise). Additionally, in theory, Shamans may serve multiple Patron AIs.

Couple other notes:
In many games of DCC I have also run, I have consistently found that many players don't fully grok the limitations of Invoke Patron and Patron Spells as dictated by Patron Bond. They are not like other spells, they have a different set of limitations.

So I think people really hit a wall when they 1) find it's not like DCC and then 2) expect their Patron spells to be regular spells-- also not a thing in DCC (but many don't fully realize this.)

You've obviously got a great eye for the rules, I'd love to get your take on the above! thank you!

maceo_the_escher
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by maceo_the_escher » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:40 am

Yep, good discussion and, from my perspective, done with an enjoyment of the game (and currently playing).

1) I've picked up all the official and 3rd party stuff I discover-whether its Umerica, Scientific Barbarian, Enchiridion, Wampler's other books,or Gongfarmer's Almanac. The future looks solid for releases for 2021 too which is great and I'm excited. But that doesn't remove the feeling I had when I first wandered in and found relative silence on the forums and the same types of questions being asked over and over-which made me feel like my questions were valid. The MCC Facebook group is a little more active but many of the rules questions or guidance questions I ask get a very small number of replies. Now, I'm kind of used to it and getting more comfortable with the system and I know now that I probably won't get many answers (which sucks but at least I know that now). For a new person -especially if they come from other more popular systems or more active communities - that could be really discouraging. That's where I am coming from with "not supported".

2) The shaman in particular IS probably viewed incorrectly. Reading the patron rules in DCC gets the point across better than MCC. DCC also has spells so the distinction is much more clear cut. There's spells and they work one way and then there's this fickle entity that might help you and that works another way. I think that helps make the two types of "powers" feel different. And the nice thing is if that fickle thing doesn't want to help you, you still have your cool spells you can reply on. MCC doesn't have that distinction made as clearly between tech & patron ai which is fine but it makes it much more important to emphasize. And it does say it in places. But people are left with a misunderstanding and/or thinking the class is under powered or broken which occurs before you even begin playing. So then people look for answers online and they find people asking the same questions they have. And those people not getting answers...

3) I'm going to continue to play and learn from the system as it stands (I'm playing it RAW now) and I look forward to the time when I can share that knowledge with new players on the internet and help them in the areas I initially struggled with.

I appreciate people coming into this thread and discussing MCC. I enjoy the dialogue and am always looking to learn more about MCC! Thanks.

The Disgruntled Poet
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by The Disgruntled Poet » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:52 am

Hey Maceo, all of the above makes sense to me. I think there has not been that much online and fan support which is unfortunate. In fact, I feel like there's almost more 3rd party product than there is active play, but then again, I only know from the cons I go to, probably not the complete picture by any means.

I've been occasionally running a sort of blend of DCC/MCC that utilizes mutations and artifacts along with more standard DCC warriors, elves, etc. and it has been fun... I like this approach which feels a little more "Thundarr" combined with Dying Earth, so I'm going to keep exploring this.

Which I mention only to say that there is 1) RAW, there is 2) "hacked-RAW" with some of the GFA support and things like Enchiridion of the Computarchs which aim to add/tweak RAW and then there's me, 3) where I am taking more of a toolbox approach to combine the parts I like best of DCC and MCC into one game. These are just obviously choices as to preferred playstyle / campaign style, none better or worse, just to codify approaches for discussion.

I'd love to hear your observations as you run more games RAW, and if I can help with questions or opinions, I'll certainly do my best.

Melfast
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Re: MCC 2nd Edition Core Book Errata and Rules Omissions/Suggestions for a 3rd Printing of the MCC Core Book

Post by Melfast » Wed Nov 25, 2020 6:31 pm

Hey Disgruntled Poet

Since you've offered to answer questions, can you jump over to my A-B-C's of Shamans post, and give me your answers to the questions I posted there?

Your Thundarr-like game sounds like a lot of fun.

Happy gaming...

- Melfast

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