How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

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Epoch
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How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Epoch »

You know that player? The one who does everything they possibly can to avoid doing anything? This is the player that makes sure their character is the last to volunteer for anything, the first to run at the smallest sign of trouble, who tries to talk the party out of exploring mysterious rooms because it could be dangerous. If they have to interact with something, they throw a rock at it, or poke it with a 10-ft pole. This is the one that spends the entire time saying stuff like:
"Nope, not going anywhere near that."
"I'm investigating (item) BUT I'M NOT ACTUALLY TOUCHING IT. I'm just looking."
"My character stands at the back of the room, away from the chest before they open it."
"I wait outside while the rest of the party goes into the room"
This stuff drives me up a wall, mostly because it's just so so so boring. Not only that, but it makes everything harder for the players who actually try to engage with their environment. For example, in my most recent funnel, the characters entered a room which housed a monster that was guarding something. The other players clearly understood that it was time to fight, but Scardey McFraidycat immediately runs from the room and slams the door behind her. Now leaving the other three players to deal with this beast while she waits it out. How do you deal with kind of stuff?
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Raven_Crowking »

Not my job to tell players how to run their characters.

I let the other players deal with it.

Not my job to limit how they can react. Perhaps they can make the other player realize that deserting her party in times of peril is where the true danger lies. Perhaps they share none of the treasure. Perhaps they just put up with it.

Of course, sometimes when you are waiting alone in the hall, the creature that's been trailing you makes use of the sudden opportunity. Critters gotta eat.

Also, few things can be investigated without touching or otherwise interacting with them. Confronted with "I am investigating X, but I am not actually touching it", my response would be "How are you investigating it? What, exactly, are you doing?"
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RevTurkey
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by RevTurkey »

I second the Crow King on this. Let the actions and consequences drive the changes in behaviour if needs be. That said, I think if I were thrust into a crazy dangerous fantasy land full of corruption, magic, monsters and things that go bump in the night...I may well exercise extreme caution too!

You might try a carrot and stick approach if you want to encourage more heroic play. Reward those that take more risks perhaps?

As far as standing at the back or out of the way...easy peasy to solve...watch most horror ensemble films and it is often the guy or gal at the back who goes bye bye first....hey where'd Bob go?....aargh!

Maybe put a situation on the clock? Realtime pressure as the sands of time run out on finding the solution or way out of a trap? Make them act or get badly hurt etc...just make it simple so they succeed and feel like acting quickly can sometimes be a winner

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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by GnomeBoy »

Reading the title, I was thinking it was about an entire group, and was put in mind of the Con game I ran once where every time someone in the party was about to actually, y'know, do something, someone else at the table would say "wait, before you do that, let's look at this other idea/approach/option/etc.".

Now, what you're actually asking about can be frustrating, but at the same time, if they're having fun, I'm not going to squash that. If the other players are fine with it, that's more what matters. I might want to ask them why they play that way, just so I understand where they're coming from. But there is that segment of people in this hobby that want their characters to remain pristine and untouched by the game world. Why that's fun, I have no idea...
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Gameogre »

How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

I would sit, eyes wide,mouth hanging open with such a look of sheer surprise on my face that I'm sure someone would run up and take a picture and post it here.

That is my guess because I have no idea at all. Has never even come close to happening.

Cautious was the name of one of my players character is as close as I can come.

Cautious died while jumping on top of a raging demon while trying to smear poop in its eyes.
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Weisenwolf
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Weisenwolf »

Epoch wrote:You know that player? The one who does everything they possibly can to avoid doing anything? This is the player that makes sure their character is the last to volunteer for anything, the first to run at the smallest sign of trouble, who tries to talk the party out of exploring mysterious rooms because it could be dangerous. If they have to interact with something, they throw a rock at it, or poke it with a 10-ft pole. This is the one that spends the entire time saying stuff like:
"Nope, not going anywhere near that."
"I'm investigating (item) BUT I'M NOT ACTUALLY TOUCHING IT. I'm just looking."
"My character stands at the back of the room, away from the chest before they open it."
"I wait outside while the rest of the party goes into the room"
This stuff drives me up a wall, mostly because it's just so so so boring. Not only that, but it makes everything harder for the players who actually try to engage with their environment. For example, in my most recent funnel, the characters entered a room which housed a monster that was guarding something. The other players clearly understood that it was time to fight, but Scardey McFraidycat immediately runs from the room and slams the door behind her. Now leaving the other three players to deal with this beast while she waits it out. How do you deal with kind of stuff?
Easy; if he left the room he wasn't present for the encounter so no XP points; also if he doesn't make any 'meaningful' contribution elsewhere - no XP's.

If it's a funnel scenario make sure it ends with exactly 10 XP's for the rest of the party but less for this coward so he gets to be the only 0 level in a 1st level party (Oh I like that idea :D )

Also when he runs from the room whose to say what's in the space he has just run into; all on his own?

Or if he waits outside why can't he be attacked from behind and deal with that; all on his own?

And perhaps whilst he is 'not actually touching' the item he is 'examining' behind him a portcullis is shutting him off from the rest of the group prior to a hidden door opening to reveal a nasty monster this 'Billy no mates' has to deal with all on his own.

Or that pit trap is only sprung when X number of people have passed over it. X being the number of PC's in front of old Billy in the march order.

Or the party is faced with a difficult decision, the clearly unbeatable monster demands the party sacrifice one of it's members, oh who could they do without? bye bye Billy

Or present a scenario where he is part of the plot line, a family member has been captured, time for Billy to man up, nowhere to hide with that one, a chance to die Gloriously.

Or put him in an alignment compromise position (Particularly if he's a cleric) where he has to act or face severe disapproval


Or if he has a Patron get the Patron to demand he does something or face dire consequences.

Or get yourself a copy of 'hole in the sky' and just pick him off (Buy it and you will get what I mean)

Or let all of his characters survive the funnel then when it's next funnel time inform him not to bother joining the session as he still has lots of unused 1st levels from the last funnel so he can use those.

Or just deduct luck points from him until every arrow aimed at the party is aimed at him :lol:

Incidentally if I'm in that party when we get that chest open he's having sod all from it :twisted:

Similarly if I'm the cleric he got Buckley’s chance of any healing and should he bleed out we won't be bothering to turn the little runt over either. In fact we may just have to inform him that his services are no longer required to the party and suggest the 'player' roles up a character that isn't an oxygen thief and a waste of rations.

Put your mind to it and this is easy; a couple of hours of suitable brow beating and he will become just a fatalistic as any other DCC player :wink:
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Gameogre »

I really don't understand I guess.

He is acting as if the very gods were out to get him right?

But see, the very gods ARE out to get him.

He is right!

Traps and horrible beasts are slavering for his blood at every turn. Death IS stalking him.

Now his reaction to that might not be providing you with enough fun so you want to know ways to (Deal) with that?

GULP!

I would just let him be and enjoy the fear, sounds like you earned it.

A healthy doss of fear is good for a game!
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Fenris Ulfhamr »

I ran "Portal Under the Stars" twice in one day. My first group was composed of inexperienced (yet inebriated, I later found out) players. My second group contained both new and veteran players. None had played DCC, any experience being drawn from other rpgs. I'd hoped to test whether experience in other rpgs helped or hindered in the funnel...

However... my first group was overly , uh, paranoid for some reason. They found EVERYTHING and finished the module with minimal losses. I even awarded a luck point to one player for creatively (if unsuccessfully) attempting to revive a dead character. Group 2 did ok, but missed much.

The point? Stupid caution payed off! At least at level 0 with far from heroic characters, haha

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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Weisenwolf »

Fenris Ulfhamr wrote:I ran "Portal Under the Stars" twice in one day. My first group was composed of inexperienced (yet inebriated, I later found out) players. My second group contained both new and veteran players. None had played DCC, any experience being drawn from other rpgs. I'd hoped to test whether experience in other rpgs helped or hindered in the funnel...

However... my first group was overly , uh, paranoid for some reason. They found EVERYTHING and finished the module with minimal losses. I even awarded a luck point to one player for creatively (if unsuccessfully) attempting to revive a dead character. Group 2 did ok, but missed much.

The point? Stupid caution payed off! At least at level 0 with far from heroic characters, haha
Good point; well made
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Blutimate »

I would tear a page from other systems and insert them into your campaign. Analysis paralysis exists only in static situations where there really is no consequence for delay.

In Shadowrun, I would have a predetermined time set before a patrol would come and discover the party. In 5E/Pathfinder/3.5, a party of oppositely aligned adventurers or an Orc war band would eventually come in behind the group after a predetermined time. With unlimited time, a thief will find all of the traps, disarm them, and unlock every door. That thief will not be ao careful if the dungeon is filling slowly with sand. On the shores of the starless sea, if beastmen are consistently returning from raids and come behind the party, the party will be forced to quickly make decisions. If there were not mobs of orcs in Moria, not to mention the Balrog that was awakened, the fellowship would have looted the crap out of that place.

This comes with a warning many have hinted at already. Do not make your games exclude players or promote only one play style. I would employ this only if all or most of your players are so cautious it ruins the feel of the game and makes the game take so much longer. You can make it too deadly and diacourage the exploration aspects of DCC, which is a draw for some players. This is only a prescription for those that are so cautious it makes them sick.

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doktorgrym
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by doktorgrym »

Having run a lot of RPGA and many other games at cons and home games, you are bound to have this happen occasionally.

While running con games this can be frustrating for you as GM and the other players around the table.
It comes to light when you tell players who attend a table you are going that this event is a 4 hour long event right from the get go. Let them know that a number of times before starting. Now old school RPGA events were timed and points driven affairs. Later events went from 5 hours to 4 hour slots, which in this day and age is a defacto standard.

I can not tell you how many games as both player and GM I participated in that were not finished due to either poor team work, players who were too conservative, splitting up the group, bad rolling, poorly written adventures, selfish players and their PC, etc.

I am gonna tell you what, I want to entertain the majority of the players who are playing and participating in the most constructive fashion for table fun factors. You want to run outside the room? great, did you happen to have a torch or can see in the dark? When they go try that door again it might be stuck or the door handle broke? Whole group lolly gagging? They hear the sound of a large creature coming from a side tunnel or feel as if they are all being sized up for lunch. If a player chooses to step in front of the bazooka they will end up dead, no roll, just dead. Are the curious about what is stalking them or had they better get a move on. This is the great thing about 0 lv funnels.

Players think their 0 lv PCs are somehow heroes because they have a ragged doll and a club. No they are peasants who may faint or vomit when they see their neighbor the cheese maker run through with a crudely made Kobold sword. They have a kindergarten education level and can't read more than what may be required for their peasantry career. When the big rock comes rolling down the tunnel they panic in a squall of confusion and scream run!

Players who think their PCs know what they do are sorely mistaken. So you say your a structural engineer in real life, great, you're playing a seamstress, a fishmonger, a wainwright and a elven flute player. I don't see the word structural or engineer in those peasant career titles, please role-play accordingly.

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Epoch
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Epoch »

This is all really solid advice. Thanks all! And agreed, I certainly don't want to force anyone to play in a way they don't want to, my goal is primarily to keep things moving and interesting.
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Re: How do you deal with stupidly cautious players?

Post by Gizrond »

Grimtooth's Traps featured a lot of traps that were specifically designed to punish overly cautious delvers. If I remember correctly, someone just reprinted them. :wink:

If you'd rather be nice, just be generous in awarding luck points to the characters that do take risks - Lady Luck does not favor the cautious. That should motivate the others to fall in line.
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