Goodman Games

Hi folks,

I am looking for opinions and thoughts on whether to use map/mat accessories, such as a laminated grid map with dry erase markers or some dungeon tile product. How about miniatures?

My home players are of course interested in doing both. I'm hesitant as I have concerns regarding how it will affect the overall flow and atmosphere of the game. We're also playing on a coffee table so space is at a premium. I'm ok with drawing out a map for them, but the idea of 15+ level 0 or 1 characters being moved around gives me seizures. I generally run combat loose. Most of the players are new to tabletop games, so I'm trying to get them to be a bit more creative (describing combat actions beyond mechanics etc...). I had the assumption that making the players visualize everything in their heads would do this, but perhaps visual aids would also benefit?

Conversely, I found that deciding which character is being attacked in a big mob can be confusing. When a player is controlling a single character, it is fairly easy to visualize who is where. With 3 or 4 each, mistakes get made. If you solve this issue with a map and miniatures, how do you prevent combat from degenerating into a tactical mess?

I use a mat and miniatures. I like it because it allows everyone to see where they are spatially and to see who can be affected by what effects. It also makes maneuver a part of combat. I added the below items to page 96 of the book. So far no one has used Parry and I might ditch it. The others are used frequently and I find that it don't increase the complexity that much, but also keeps the players in their comfort zone after years of D&D. I also have them roll initiative each round as a house rule as well.

The following Combat Maneuvers are added:

Readied Actions: characters may state an if/then action instead of using their action die in their initiative order. If their initiative expires they have spent that round in wait and re-roll initiative as normal for the next round.

Parry: In lieu of using armor class and dex bonus a character may make an attack roll, modified as normal, to set the DC# for an enemy attack roll. The Character must state this before the attack roll is made and this action will count as the use of their primary action die in the round. The character need not wait for their turn in the initiative to use a parry. Additional Player action die are used in accordance with their initiative roll for that round. A parry is effective against only one die roll attack per action die spent.

Delay: A character may delay until after any other characters action behind them in the initiative order. They may not go before that character with a delay, but may do so if using a Readied Action instead.

Withdrawal: A character may withdraw from combat with their move action if another character is adjacent and in combat with the same foe. Otherwise they are attacked with a free attack using the primary action die of their opponent

I bought a 3' x 5' white board at Office Max then used an exacto knife to cut in a 1" grid pattern. The dry erase ink settles into the fine grooves I cut to create the background grid pattern. It sounds like a lot of work, but it actually didn't take very long.

I have played D&D 3E and 4E quite a bit in the last 10 years or more, with miniatures, and I'm burned out on use of miniatures in RPGs.

They are very nice and fun for a tactical game. If this is what you and your group are looking for, then miniatures is the way to go. But for a RPG, if find that a strict combat system with grid and minis, sucks the breath out of the game.

So I haven't used a battle map or minis in my DCC campaign (that just ended this past weekend).

I've actually played one session with minis and a battle map. I didn't even bother with using the grid as I didn't want strictu battle rules. Still, the contrast with the freeform battles was blatant. That battle was longer, it inevitably included a lot of "let me see where I'll move" moments, and it was not more interesting.

As for how to manage who is battling who, I simply write it down on a piece of paper. Our funnel started with 20 PCs (4 per player) and it went well. There was never a 20 vs 20 battle anyway (this would kill half the party or more), it was usually one opponent vs the PCs, except one or two battles where there were 4-5 opponents. Where your own memory or your notes are erroneous, the players remember and fill in the gaps.

Battles at level 0 are quick and dirty. Without a battle map, you can usually be done with it in 20 minutes or less.

The battle map is also addictive. So when the players enter a room, if they're used to having a battle map, they'll ask you for one even if you don't have any monsters there. They'll want to know where they PCs are, and they'll start moving their miniatures about. You'll end up playing miniatures instead of playing a RPG. That's my experience anyway. And that is with a bunch of experienced role-players.

In the end, ditching the battle map was one of the best decisions we made, in my opinion. After years of using it in D&D, we indeed discussed before the campaign started, whether we wanted to use one or not. I think that not using one was a great idea.

I simply drew a small-scale plan of the area when it was useful or when players asked for it, when there was a battle going on. It went very well.

(And on a somewhat related topic, read the following long post http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread ... -Lost-quot that discusses whether the newer RPG gaming styles stiffle use of imagination at the table. I do not necessarily agree with this post, but I think that it's somewhat related with the topic of use of minis or lack thereof.)

Finally, I'll note that I still play some DDM skirmish games (D&D miniatures). This is not a RPG, it is a the strategy game that has essentially the same rules as 4E D&D, but with no role-play included whatsoever. It's simply my warband vs. your warband. It's a fun strategy game that uses miniatures on full color battle maps. Looking back, I think that the 4E rules are great for such a strategy game, very fun, offering a lot of options. But the 4E rules do not fit my style of gaming for a RPG, where I prefer more theatre of the mind, and less concrete "I'll move here and blast this 3x3 area with my spell to hit those fournd creatures, and flank that fifth enemy too!" moments. Glory is in the cooperative storytelling, not in the tactical moves, for us.

Of course, all this is not black or white, minis have their upsides, we've had fun playing a couple of long-winded campaigns in 3E and 4E both. But I think that we might well have had more fun without the minis - although that's hard to say of course.