Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

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Duchess512
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Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by Duchess512 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 1:13 pm

My DM disagrees with me and I cant figure out why. Please read below and please let me know if I've misunderstood or got something wrong, thanks!

My Logic:
1. Range: The only downsides I can see is that it can only be cast through touch and b/c its 1 round to cast, you cant use movement so you have to be within 5ft of the target. The size increase at 20+ can be a hinderance in an enclosed space but presumably the caster would understand where/when to use it.
2. Duration: It last for 1 turn/CL, so even at lvl 1, as long as its successful, it lasts for a minimum of 60 rounds ( 1 rd is 10 seconds, 1 turn is 10 minutes), so it essentially gives the target Enlarge for entire length of combat.
3. Effect: Bestows melee classes with increased chance to hit, increased damage if it does hit, and increased AC. Anything higher than a 19 also gives target temporary hitpoints
4. Repeat Offender: Unlike other spells or spell effect, casting this does not cancel out the previous spell's effects, so it can be cast on any and all melee classes as long as they know to stand within 5ft of the caster.
5. Utility: Enlarge is also not a channeled spell or a concentration spell so it leaves the caster free to cast anything they want after successfully buffing their party.

There are more powerful spells, of course, but this is a spell that can radically transform 1 or more of your party and then leave the wizard free to use any other spell they have. Wizard/Elf + Enlarge + other spells is INSTANTLY more powerful and more useful than any Wizard/Elf without Enlarge + other spells.

Example: At a 20-23 spell effect, which is not difficult to achieve with a Wizard/Elf of higher levels (like, minimum 3 or 4), they can buff a dwarf with +4 to attack, damage, and AC and bestowing 10 temp HP, all of which last the entire combat. That dwarf can then go tear apart enemies using his own actions, independent of the wizard while the wizard can then buff another melee classed OR move on to their more powerful spells they might have in their book.

Please friends, why am I wrong?

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by Raven_Crowking » Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:01 pm

Duchess512 wrote:4. Repeat Offender: Unlike other spells or spell effect, casting this does not cancel out the previous spell's effects, so it can be cast on any and all melee classes as long as they know to stand within 5ft of the caster.
But multiple castings do not stack on the same character/object.

Also, if you roll a "1", you might have just buffed your opponents.

Finally, it should be noted that you get what you roll; overdo it and you might kill your fighter by forcing he into a far smaller space than she can fit in.

Magic in DCC is powerful, but it is also a trap. Rely on it too much, and it will eventually burn you.
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

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GnomeBoy
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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by GnomeBoy » Wed Feb 20, 2019 7:15 pm

Nothing in the game is overpowered. Some things are insanely unpredictable and will absolutely change the very nature of what's happening for the party.

Also. dice will run hot and then run cold. Have fun with the Enlarge, because that TPK could be right around the corner...

But what level are you playing at? Are you worried about results that are unlikely to happen unless some severe spellburn were also happening, which is it's own limiting factor?
...
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Ravenheart87
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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by Ravenheart87 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 4:08 am

Nothing is overpowered in DCC RPG, but everything is badass. Every class has some really cool stuff to play with, while also being fragile. The warrior's Mighty Deeds of Arms, the thief's luck burning, the clerics ridiculous healing ability, the wizard's spells all can have over the top results even at low levels.
Vorpal Mace: a humble rpg blog with some DCC-related stuff.

Ironmanowar
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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by Ironmanowar » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:53 pm

Do what I do, the spell works as written, however, the AC bonus is an AC penalty, due to the creature being a much larger target. Just Like D&D 3.5 has the size adjustments for size.

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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by BanjoJohn » Wed May 22, 2019 3:03 am

Well, you still have to cast the spell successfully, in my experience, most of the time people fail to cast the spell and lose it for the rest of the day the first time they cast the spell for the day.

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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by clairelenore » Sat May 25, 2019 6:02 am

our party has a wizard and an elf who both got enlarge in their starting spells, plus a halfling with a really good luck stat. the wizard's physical stats are kinda sucky, but the elf's are pretty decent. so if we can hold off on too much spellburn and luck burn until we're pretty sure we're at the boss, he's toast if the room is big enough. we once had a warrior at the max result and three other guys at triple height at the same time, no lie!

but if this sounds like i'm agreeing about the op (pun intended!), i'm not, because that wizard also rolled "at great cost" for two of her other starting spells and even with a swell intelligence she only had enlarge, mending, and ekim's mask that she could cast without killing somebody. so she basically had one shot at doing anything awesome in a given scenario. with her bad agility she couldn't even hang back and use missile weapons to contribute to combat. on top of that, one of our party members insists on saying "just don't roll a 1!" anytime a 1 will screw us all. i dunno about in your games, but in ours, "just don't roll a 1" is like a real-world curse spell that works at least half the time.

dcc is a nutso game plain and simple, and if you pull off a boss kill with your plus-sized party, it just gives you a good story to tell and knocks off a couple of experience points you would've gotten since easy encounters get you less xp than hard ones.

:)

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BernieTheFlumph
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Re: Enlarge is OP, tell me why not!!!

Post by BernieTheFlumph » Tue Oct 22, 2019 4:34 pm

When I ran Sailors on the Starless Sea, our wizard spell-burned 20 points and cast Enlarge on our dwarf. They were able to defeat the Chaos Leviathan this way.

I say it's just powerful enough! :D


*(I let my players level-up their survivors half-way through the adventure.)
-Josh Burnett-
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