Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

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qstor
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Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by qstor »

Our group was having a discussion last night in the RAW, if a 1 is an automatic failure on a saving throw and a 20 an automatic success.

Core Rules p. 12 "A roll of 1 is an automatic miss and often results in a fumbling failure of some kind. A roll of 20 is an automatic hit and often results in a critical success of some kind."

Cause in a saving throw obviously there isn't a miss and a "hit." I was hoping for some official clarification.

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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by BanjoJohn »

just a language problem.
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by GnomeBoy »

Pg 94 suggests that Saves either succeed or fail, with no mention of fumbles and crits.

Arguably, if you're making a Save, you're already facing a "fumble" of some sort and trying to save your bacon.

Pg 12 is such a general overview of things, it seems a stretch to apply it as a Rule.

"Official answers" are officially heresy at this point, given how long the game has been in the wild...

But of course, it's your game and if fumbles and crits for Saves sound good, then they are good.
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Jim Skach
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by Jim Skach »

GnomeBoy wrote: Wed Mar 24, 2021 8:58 am "Official answers" are officially heresy at this point[/i]
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by thogard »

I might give a situational bonus for a nat 20 save, depending on what's going on. Maybe a Wizard's Will save for an enemy's spell allows them to channel that energy into a spell check bonus. Maybe a Thief's 20 Ref save gives them an insight into the trap and can disarm it with a die bump. Maybe the Elf's Fort save against the venom reduces the die of the next poison damage they take.
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by GnomeBoy »

thogard wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 10:33 am a situational bonus for a nat 20 save
Yeah, that's good stuff.

I'd add that anytime the table gets excited about a roll -- whatever it's original purpose or outcome -- that's a good time to build something extra onto it.
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by finarvyn »

Yeah, I feel like the "20=success 1=fail" rule should apply to saving throws just as they might apply to pretty much any other roll. You might have to be a little creative in the interpretation of the result, however.

GM: You fall into a pit of lava. Roll a saving throw, but you're likely to die here.
Player: I rolled a 20!
GM: So you didn't actually fall into the pit, but managed to hang onto the side of the pit wall and are dangling over the lave.
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by Arayis »

So you’re telling me I have a chance lol. I agree with Finarvyn & that is how I play it. Makes the game fun & exciting when a natural 20 or 1 is rolled on the die.
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by finarvyn »

"Never tell me the odds." (Han Solo)

Yeah, it just seems to me like there ought to be a chance of success or failure no matter what the situation, as long as it's clearly not impossible. I have a lot of games where I might make a comment like, "roll a d20 to climb the rope; just don't roll a one." Other than that, I really don't care what the roll says. I just want to know that nothing bad happens (and since I often game with "inspiration" tokens to allow a re-roll, hardly ever anything bad happens for those mundane rolls).
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-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by dustle »

finarvyn wrote: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:41 am "Never tell me the odds." (Han Solo)

Yeah, it just seems to me like there ought to be a chance of success or failure no matter what the situation, as long as it's clearly not impossible. I have a lot of games where I might make a comment like, "roll a d20 to climb the rope; just don't roll a one." Other than that, I really don't care what the roll says. I just want to know that nothing bad happens (and since I often game with "inspiration" tokens to allow a re-roll, hardly ever anything bad happens for those mundane rolls).
Last weekend I had a rare live session with my PbP group. They were trying to decapitate a long-dead mummified alien lying on the ground in front of them. I almost just allowed it without a roll, thought better, and the first three attempts by three different PCs were natural 1s. :)
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Re: Saving Throws - Goodman Games response?

Post by finarvyn »

Nice! Stories like that become legend at my table. They shouldn't ever happen, yet they do! Players never remember the time they killed such-and-such monster, but multiple crits or fumbles are remembered forever.
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
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