Adjusting dice chain

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AMLopez
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Adjusting dice chain

Post by AMLopez » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:28 am

I am pretty new to DCC so don't beat me up too bad...

Is it feasible to adjust people's action die up/down the dice chain based on the Hit Die difference between the characters and the NPC/Monster? For example, a level 1 character attacking a 4HD monster would also suffer a -3d to the dice chain, whereas a level 6 character attacking a 2HD monster would gain a +4d to their attack.

Would this throw balance off or cause unnecessary problems?
“There's gotta be a way out of this dungeon."- G. Gygax”
― Robert Lynn Asprin, Myth-ion Improbable

Mat Mobile
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Mat Mobile » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:48 am

No, this is not a case where you would move up or down the dice chain.

When a character attacks a monster/NPC, he uses his action die found in his class table. The only time this dice changes is when characters level up or when they are submited to Attack Roll Modifiers found in Table 4-1 (page 78). Like when a character is entangled.

BTW, are you trying to balance out the encounters? Because your suggestion will completely unbalance the game! In DCC, encounters are not always balanced. They are often very difficult. This reflects what can be seen in the Appendix N litterature. When an encounter is too difficult, the players (not the characters abilities) are supposed to find a clever solution to beating (or avoiding) the encounter.

I hope this answer your question...

AMLopez
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by AMLopez » Sat Sep 12, 2020 8:55 am

Thanks, Mat Mobile. That is exactly what I was looking for. I'm not really trying to "balance" encounters per se. I am just wondering if this would "encourage" players to seek out another solution rather than the straight murder-hobo method they learned in other RPGs... (I'm running adventures for people who are used to D&D)
“There's gotta be a way out of this dungeon."- G. Gygax”
― Robert Lynn Asprin, Myth-ion Improbable

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Raven_Crowking » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:00 am

I would personally avoid doing something like that.

While DCC doesn't follow the same kind of math as Pathfinder of WotC-era D&D, you would still be making those higher-HD monsters a lot tougher. The PCs hit less often, and need to do more damage. Combat would become a sort of slog. Remember that HD is linked to crit die for monsters, so you are also increasing the chances of horrible crits against your PCs.

Worse, when your PCs hit 3rd level, if you did the same for the monsters, a horde of goblins is suddenly much less threatening. In DCC, lots of smaller/weaker foes are often better than a single strong foe to keep the game moving. If those foes are rolling reduced dice, they will not be critting. They will also be hitting less often, which makes them less of a threat.

Even worse, if you do not similarly limit spellcasters when facing more powerful foes, warriors, thieves, dwarves, and halflings will all suffer in comparison. And if you do similarly limit spellcasters, you increase the chances of disapproval and/or patron taint/misfire/corruption.

That said, let the rule on page 312 be your guide. And, if you do try it, let us know how it went. I imagine that combat will slow down, the world will become grimmer, and you will experience more TPKs.

(I think you will find that the funnel adventure breaks the "we must be able to fight/kill everything we meet" mentality pretty well. As do later adventures. Any player who keeps that mentality will usually be making new characters until they learn.)
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

AMLopez
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by AMLopez » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:06 am

Raven_Crowking

I was not intending on adjusting the NPC/Monster's action die, only PCs. But after reading responses, I don't think it is practical.

But I really do appreciate your insight. Right now, I only have level 1 characters to work with so I don't have experience with higher level characters yet.
“There's gotta be a way out of this dungeon."- G. Gygax”
― Robert Lynn Asprin, Myth-ion Improbable

Mat Mobile
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Mat Mobile » Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:27 am

You mention:
Right now, I only have level 1 characters to work with so I don't have experience with higher level characters yet.
Have you tried a funnel with 0-level characters? It's a really interesting experiment especially players who are used to D&D. It has so many advantages but the main ones are:

- Breaking the mold of previous RPGs (D&D).
- It's easy to learn the game since you aren't using all the character abilities.
- It allows players to get attached to their characters.
- It's really fun both for players and DMs.

Just sayin'...

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Raven_Crowking » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:30 am

Mat Mobile wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:27 am
Have you tried a funnel with 0-level characters? It's a really interesting experiment especially players who are used to D&D. It has so many advantages but the main ones are:

- Breaking the mold of previous RPGs (D&D).
- It's easy to learn the game since you aren't using all the character abilities.
- It allows players to get attached to their characters.
- It's really fun both for players and DMs.
+3d30.

The funnel is definitely worth doing. It is, in fact, worth doing several times.
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Raven_Crowking » Sat Sep 12, 2020 10:48 am

AMLopez wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:06 am
I was not intending on adjusting the NPC/Monster's action die, only PCs. But after reading responses, I don't think it is practical.
Right now there is DCC Lankhmar and DCC Empire of the East is very close to being available. DCC Dying Earth is within sight.

If you wanted to do a DCC Cthulhu Mythos, this sort of change could definitely make the PCs feel more puny. If you wanted to recreate the vibe of the original Warhammer game, or of Lammentations of the Flame Princess, it might be appropriate. You can always try it, and then decide what you think. Of course, for the players to roll the right dice, they would have to know the Hit Dice of their opponents. If their opponents were very weak, would they get a +1d or +2d bonus to their attacks?

You can play with this game in all sorts of ways without breaking it. And, if you find that your experiment wasn't what you wanted, you can easily switch back.

I've written a couple of articles on how you can use the mechanics of DCC. This one is on creating monsters: https://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2018 ... crawl.html

You could easily create a monster that causes a die shift on attack (and damage? and spell check?) rolls against it to test how it works before instituting a house rule that applies to everything. Or a location that does the same, so that you can try it with a number of monsters.

The game is yours. The rules bend to you!
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

AMLopez
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by AMLopez » Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:48 pm

Mat Mobile wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 9:27 am
Have you tried a funnel with 0-level characters? It's a really interesting experiment especially players who are used to D&D. It has so many advantages but the main ones are:

- Breaking the mold of previous RPGs (D&D).
- It's easy to learn the game since you aren't using all the character abilities.
- It allows players to get attached to their characters.
- It's really fun both for players and DMs.

Just sayin'...
Yes! I have run three Funnel adventures so far! With the number of players I ran through the funnels, I have some that wanted to stick with it and they are level 1 now.
“There's gotta be a way out of this dungeon."- G. Gygax”
― Robert Lynn Asprin, Myth-ion Improbable

Mat Mobile
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by Mat Mobile » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm

AMLopez wrote:
Sat Sep 12, 2020 12:48 pm
Yes! I have run three Funnel adventures so far! With the number of players I ran through the funnels, I have some that wanted to stick with it and they are level 1 now.
Super! I find it gets really fun at this point! Enjoy!

BanjoJohn
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Re: Adjusting dice chain

Post by BanjoJohn » Sun Sep 13, 2020 4:46 pm

If you are still looking for some way to encourage non-murder-hoboism, you could remind your players that they get the same XP for dealing with "encounters" whether through combat or peaceful dialog or some other clever way, and may even be rewarded bonus XP or some other reward for finding an unexpectedly awesome way of dealing with the situation.

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