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PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:47 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
Posts: 66
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs
So one thing I've been thinking about recently is that one aspect of DCC RPG that makes itself separate from other games is the dice chain. Some modifiers in the game still give a straight up +/- to the roll, while others actually modify the die that you roll for determining success/failure.

While I understand that if there are too many modifiers that change the die you roll, it can be annoying or difficult to keep track of, I feel like in addition to the table showing you what +/- modifier you get for your ability scores, an extra column showing a +/-D for your ability scores could have been useful for having easy reference for some actions.

One thought in particular I had been having recently was that Strength(melee)/Agility(ranged) scores should probably have a +/-D to combat rolls instead of a straight +/- on the action die.

My general thought is that, having a higher or lower ability score enhances or penalizes your chance of success, but experience and training make up for, or enhance your natural abilities. So, ability scores to me make more sense as a D modifier, while training and experience through leveling up, or special quested training/enhancements or whatnot give a flat bonus to your rolls.

I wouldn't make the +/-D too big. Heck I even think the dice chain itself probably needs more steps to make it a little more balanced.

I would modify the dice chain from 16 to 30 as below. The rest of the dice chain seems fine to me.

16<>18<>20<>22<>24<>26<>28<>30

And then I would have ability scores give the bonus as such:
17-18 : +2D
14-16: +1D
8-13: +0D
5-7: -1D
3-4: -2D

So, for starters I would probably think this is good for melee and ranged combat attack rolls. Probably a good idea for wizard and cleric spell casting rolls. Might even be good for saving throws.

I dunno, thoughts? Is this a decent idea? Could this be applied to more rolls? Less rolls? Different rolls? Bad idea in general? Different scale of which ability scores should be mapped to what +/-D modifiers?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:17 am 
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Tyrant Master (Administrator)
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Joined: Fri Mar 10, 2006 1:46 pm
Posts: 3498
Location: Left Coast, USA
FLGS: Bizarro World
This puts more emphasis on the Ability Scores, whereas, from where I sit, I like that Ability Scores are de-emphasized in DCC. So what if you only have a 9 INT -- you can still be a perfectly viable Wizard if that's what you want to do...

Also, I love the progression of the Dice Chain as it is. Those single steps, then double steps, then quadruple steps, ending with a sextoople step just works, since if you're rolling a smaller die, a smaller step makes a bigger difference, and that "worthyness" is true of the higher, larger steps. Just going up form a d20 to a d22 is adding an average of 1 to my roll; I'd rather have the fixed +1 and get on with it. Folks have suggested adding dice to the DC over the years, and to me it makes the DC far less interesting.

Sketching in the lines between "here is my character's natural ability and over here is my training" seems restrictive from a playing standpoint. What if I want to establish the idea that my character (before play began) was a 98-pound weakling before they set out to change that and did some body building? Is my Strength "natural" or "trained"? In your proposal, I can't define that for myself to explain my 14 STR -- it's natural, nuff said. There isn't room for "training" before play begins, you start "natural" and leveling up is your "training".

I had a friend who once tried to define each factor that went into AC, so that if an attack missed by X amount you could definitively say the miss was a clean miss, or that it bounced off the armor, or it bounced off of the shield, or that you dodged away. This took all the ability to improvise in the moment and describe the dice results in a fun way out of the game, and we became dice rolling machines in service to the "rules" (an exaggeration, but illustrative of the direction his rules were going in). We dropped it pretty quickly, as it drained fun out of the game.

I can definitely see adding two steps between the d24 and the d30, defining too many things ahead of time, etc. as draining fun out of the game... But that's my game. YMMV

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:41 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot

Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2015 6:00 pm
Posts: 66
FLGS: there are a few but I dont really consider any of them as my main flgs
I don't think it adds much emphasis on the Ability Scores. The +/-D would just change the emphasis of ability scores

Example of melee attack roll now vs a D modifier system:
With Bonus With +/-D
Str 3 1d20-3 1d16
Str 4 1d20-2 1d16
Str 5 1d20-2 1d18
Str 6 1d20-1 1d18
Str 7 1d20-1 1d18
Str 8 1d20-1 1d20
Str 9 1d20 1d20
Str 10 1d20 1d20
Str 11 1d20 1d20
Str 12 1d20 1d20
Str 13 1d20+1 1d20
Str 14 1d20+1 1d22
Str 15 1d20+1 1d22
Str 16 1d20+2 1d22
Str 17 1d20+2 1d24
Str 18 1d20+3 1d24

Just using my proposed D modifier table & dice chain.
I dunno, maybe its not 'perfect" but certainly seems viable possibly with refinement.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:37 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:52 am
Posts: 66
BanjoJohn wrote:
Just using my proposed D modifier table & dice chain.
I dunno, maybe its not 'perfect" but certainly seems viable possibly with refinement.


Viable? Sure. Necessary? Not to me.

Who wants to keep switching dice for different PCs? Seems cumbersome.

By changing the die you're rolling, you're also changing your odds of a natural 1 or a crit (some real questions around calculating crits now too for characters with dice below D20).

Overall, I just don't see this as having any substantial advantages over the Core Rules while complicating play.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:38 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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GnomeBoy wrote:
Also, I love the progression of the Dice Chain as it is. Those single steps, then double steps, then quadruple steps, ending with a sextoople step just works, since if you're rolling a smaller die, a smaller step makes a bigger difference, and that "worthyness" is true of the higher, larger steps. Just going up form a d20 to a d22 is adding an average of 1 to my roll; I'd rather have the fixed +1 and get on with it. Folks have suggested adding dice to the DC over the years, and to me it makes the DC far less interesting.


Same.


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