Goodman Games

I've read multiple playtest reports so far for the DCC RPG and it is often commented that the rules will need to have a good layout in order to make the game easy to use. That's obvious for any game (and sadly much neglected by RPG publishers), but it looks like it might be more so for the DCC RPG.

As a scientist, I'm a stickler for accuracy and very conscious of the difficulties in communicating complicated and/or voluminous information. One presentation method I think is greatly underutilised is the flowchart. To my mind, RPG systems are eminently suited to being condensed down into flowcharts, yet I've never seen an RPG rulebook use them.

As an example, I made a widely used flowchart for the Mongoose Traveller combat system that you can get here.

This was made using Microsoft Visio which, despite what many might say about Microsoft in general and their software in particular, is an outstanding program (as is OneNote, by the way).

This is my suggestion to those producing the DCC RPG; Translating your rules (at least some of them) into flowcharts is not only a very useful design process as it often helps you identify problems, but is also a very efficient way of presenting the final rule(s). I would encourage you to consider using them in the DCC RPG as an addition to the normal prose presentation of rules.

That's a cool chart, but it looks a lot more intimidating and complex than actually just reading the rules did IMO. I certainly don't remember combat in MT being so complicated.

The thing that rulebooks need more of is examples. There should be an example for just about every rule. And the absolute best combat example I've ever seen is the one done in Hackmaster Basic. It uses a kodt comic to illustrate the combat- it's fun to read and teaches you everything you need to know. See for yourself-

http://www.kenzerco.com/hackmaster/down ... xample.pdf

Stainless wrote:This is my suggestion to those producing the DCC RPG; Translating your rules (at least some of them) into flowcharts is not only a very useful design process as it often helps you identify problems, but is also a very efficient way of presenting the final rule(s). I would encourage you to consider using them in the DCC RPG as an addition to the normal prose presentation of rules.

As a usability guy and designer by trade, I agree with Stainless. Boardgames use flowcharts more often than not. And the ones that don't use a numbered-list, often in a big call-out box, with page references under each "step" in a process. This is for a good reason. A simple graphic can often tell us more about how something plays than 1500 words of text.

Most contemporary roleplayers don't read rules. They look them up. Maybe that's always been the case, considering how no one I've played AD&D with has understood or used segments, weapon speed, etc. And we're talking a lot of people there.

IIRC, HeroQuest (the rpg, not boardgame) used flowcharts in this fashion. It was helpful.

mshensley wrote:That's a cool chart, but it looks a lot more intimidating and complex than actually just reading the rules did IMO. I certainly don't remember combat in MT being so complicated.

I think the only way a flowchart should be used is in conjunction with the written rules (I'm not suggesting them as the only presentation of the rules). You reads the rules first and then 'revise' your understanding by looking at the flowchart. The advantage of the flowchart, once you're a bit familiar with the written rules, is that everything is in one place (no page flipping) and often little details (e.g., the recoil rules in MGT) are somewhat buried away. I know people who use only the flowchart for all their MGT combat. I'd agree that going in cold would make the flowchart look quite daunting.

Usign a flowchart is a good idea: I know different indie games using them (Polaris, Trollbabe, The Burning Wheel, etc).

In addition, a flowchart is the best way to avoid FAQs (if you have a flowchart, you can suppose there's only THAT interpretation of the rules).

Flowcharts help some folks, alienate others. They can be great if well done and simple, but if the designer tries to pack too much information in them many readers suffer from "techie overload" and refuse to look at them.

A flowchart might be more useful on a GM screen, PDF download, or seperate "reference sheets" for quick access rather than eating up page count in the core rulebook.

finarvyn wrote: A flowchart might be more useful on a GM screen, PDF download, or seperate "reference sheets" for quick access rather than eating up page count in the core rulebook.

+1

This could be handy as a separate DM tool.

What rules are so confusing they need a flow chart? I can't believe this discussion is taking place on the forum for a game whose mantra (I thought) was KISS.

jmucchiello wrote:What rules are so confusing they need a flow chart? I can't believe this discussion is taking place on the forum for a game whose mantra (I thought) was KISS.

Some people learn better (or faster) with visual aids. For those people something like this can be made available as a separate download.

dkeester wrote:

jmucchiello wrote:What rules are so confusing they need a flow chart? I can't believe this discussion is taking place on the forum for a game whose mantra (I thought) was KISS.

Some people learn better (or faster) with visual aids. For those people something like this can be made available as a separate download.

I know that. But a flowchart for just 3-4 steps is overkill.
1) Name your target and attack weapon
2) Roll d20 + + + and inform the GM of the result
3) If the GM says you hit roll dx + + + or damage

What else is there in combat?

jmucchiello wrote:

dkeester wrote:

jmucchiello wrote:What rules are so confusing they need a flow chart? I can't believe this discussion is taking place on the forum for a game whose mantra (I thought) was KISS.

Some people learn better (or faster) with visual aids. For those people something like this can be made available as a separate download.

I know that. But a flowchart for just 3-4 steps is overkill.
1) Name your target and attack weapon
2) Roll d20 + + + and inform the GM of the result
3) If the GM says you hit roll dx + + + or damage

What else is there in combat?

Spell casting and MDoA to name two examples.

I personally don't think a flowchart is necessary, but it could be a good quick reference document for a DM. I don't really have a use for one, but maybe someone else does.

Oh, and just to point out the obvious. Your three step list is a kind of flowchart.

I read an interesting blog post that I think is related , the subject was about using art to express game mechanics. While the flavor of old school doesn't lend it self to oversimplification, I like the idea of charts or illustration that express meaning rather than just something pretty to look at.

While flow charts really aren't "art", i think they serve the same purpose and run in the same vein, for those interested i will post a link to the article.

http://atarashigames.wordpress.com/2010 ... -pictures/

It relates itself very much in my mind to the use of flowcharts as charts are just expressive illustrations.

With the paucity of rules that we know of so far, I think it's too early to know just how simple/streamlined the system will be (despite the design goal of KISS).

Also, the Mongoose Traveller combat system is very simple and streamlined (one of its often mentioned good points), yet the flowchart I used as an example has been very useful to many and I have received comments from some that they didn't fully understand the system until they gone through the flowchart.

mshensley wrote: The thing that rulebooks need more of is examples. There should be an example for just about every rule.

I agree. Just give us a good example. If it still doesn't make sense we will just house rule it and move on.

DCCfan wrote:

mshensley wrote: The thing that rulebooks need more of is examples. There should be an example for just about every rule.

I agree. Just give us a good example. If it still doesn't make sense we will just house rule it and move on.

But what if viewing a flowchart makes the rules "make sense"? They are simply an very efficient aid to comprehension. Take up little space. Can be readily photocopied and handed out to new players to help guide them through their first combats, etc. Granted they work better for some people than they do for others, but the concept has been rather widely used and seems to be a great benefit in a lot of different areas. There must be something going for it.

I dunno... As it was demo'ed in February, it was much more of a "what do you want to do?"-and-let-the-DM-let-you-know-what-you-need-to-roll type of game, than a here-are-your-options--pick-one (aiming, bracing, dodging, delay, etc) type of game. Given that it's a stripped down 3e variant, it's not like you need to correlate a bunch of Feats' interactions to understand what your options are...

Your example of a flowchart looks really good, but right off the bat there are two options for generating initiative -- I don't think DCC RPG is that sort of game.

Stainless wrote:But what if viewing a flowchart makes the rules "make sense"?

Even with 25+ years of computer programming I've never found flowcharts more sensible than a good outline list. YMMV. A flowchart can only handle so much detail before it gets bogged down. And a flowchart with only a couple decisions is just a waste of space.