Spellcraft Checks
Posted: Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:25 am
I would first of all like to say that variable spell effects seemed to work pretty well in the play tests. I know that checking the tables was a little slow, but I think that was more that we did not know our spells yet. As time progressed, it would flow much smoother.
As always, I have a few random thoughts about the spell checks. Some of these items were already presented to Joseph after the play tests, but I am going to include them here for everyone to comment on / pick apart.
On a natural 20 --- Do not automatically achieve the maximum spell result
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1. Have a natural twenty work like a 20+bonus+CL. This prevents a 1st level caster from achieving magic that only a arch mage can cast.
2. Have a natural twenty be calculated at 20+(CL*2)-1. This makes it so you cannot get the top table result until you hit 7th level caster on a natural 20. This would be accomplished by adding a column to the spell chart that lists the highest effect a caster can achieve.
Spell burn --- spell burn is pretty severe for only a chance to be successful. In both play tests, the spell burn was successful and useful. But in an extended campaign, I would not see it used very often.
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If you use spell burn, you shift one result category for each ability score point that is burned. How will this play out? Lets look at a small sample chart:
I am using the posted MagicMissle chart from earlier with one modification for to break out a 1 as a Critical failure
1: Critical failure
2-11: Lost. Failure.
12-13: You can throw 1 missile that does 1 point of damage. You must have line of sight to the target. The missile flows unerringly and never misses, though it may be blocked by certain magic (e.g., magic shield).
14-17: As above, but 1 missile does damage 1d4 + caster level.
18-19: As above, but 1d4 missiles that each do damage 1d4 + caster level. All missiles must be aimed at a single target.
20-23: As above, but 1d4 missiles that each do damage 1d6 + caster level. You may aim each missile at an individual target.
24-27: As above, but one extremely powerful missile that does damage 4d12 + caster level. Range is increased to 1,000’, provided line of sight is maintained.
28-29: As above, but 1d8 missiles that each do damage 1d8 + caster level. Range is increased to line of sight, as long as missiles travel in a direct path.
If I did 3 points of spell burn and I roll a 15, I would end up shifting 3 result categories and get a result of 24-27. This allows for some interesting side effects.
If you use one point of spell burn, you can not get a Critical Failure... and unless you roll a 1, you would never lose a spell when cast.
If you use two points of spell burn, you guarantee that you will not lose a spell as even a natural 1 would shift down twice.
I think this would make spell burn a more interesting mechanic and would be more likely to be used during a regular adventure.
Permanency - The bless spell at top levels had the chance to achieve a permanent bless effect (roll of 32+)
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I would probably suggest removal of any permanent beneficial spell effect for casting a spell. If you want to effect to be permanent, you should probably be enchanting a magical item.
Variable Spell Effects - Sometimes you get a more powerful effect than expected when rolling high.
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Change the way the table works so that you can pick any effect up to and including what you rolled from the table. A good example of this is the hole portal spell from a posted play test. If you roll too high the door is gone. This can be a funny situation in the game, but it can also be very disruptive to the continuation of the adventure. If they could possible choose a lesser effect, it would go a long way towards making the Wizard something besides an agent of Chaos.
Fading spell effects - right now some effects (like bless) are d3+1 bonus to hit/spell checks/ability checks for X turns
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It might be too much to bring into the game, but it would be a cool mechanic to have fading spell effects for things like bless. The first turn it is effective it would be the full bonus. It would then expire at +1/per turn/hour/day (depending on the die roll) until the effect fades away. It does add additional tracking/paperwork, so I am not sold on this idea.
Corruption/spell fumbles
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I am not positive if our tests were exceptional, but it appeared that corruption for rolling a one was not uncommon. That means that a Wizard is going to morph pretty hard by the time they hit 5th level. Because corruption is not a minor event, I could see that a wizard would be hesitant to cast spells all of the time due to the risks. How about the following suggestion: When rolling a 1 on a d20 and a corruption comes up, the caster can make a saving throw vs. Fortitude (or whatever) to avoid the corruption.
Saving Throw DC's - in the play tests the DC's were set by the spell craft check of the casting wizard.
-------------------
This created situations where the enemies had target DCs of anywhere between 13 and 27. For the same first level spell. With that sort of dynamic range involved, it makes saving throws very unpredictable. This will become even more important as death magic comes into play. I do not know how the Saving Throws will scale, but it appears that spell craft checks grow faster than saving throw bonuses (i.e. most 2nd level characters has +1 or +2 on their Saves --- and the casters had +3 or +4 on their spell craft checks). My suggestion would be to make DC's = 10 + (spell level *2)-1.
As always, I have a few random thoughts about the spell checks. Some of these items were already presented to Joseph after the play tests, but I am going to include them here for everyone to comment on / pick apart.
On a natural 20 --- Do not automatically achieve the maximum spell result
---------------
1. Have a natural twenty work like a 20+bonus+CL. This prevents a 1st level caster from achieving magic that only a arch mage can cast.
2. Have a natural twenty be calculated at 20+(CL*2)-1. This makes it so you cannot get the top table result until you hit 7th level caster on a natural 20. This would be accomplished by adding a column to the spell chart that lists the highest effect a caster can achieve.
Spell burn --- spell burn is pretty severe for only a chance to be successful. In both play tests, the spell burn was successful and useful. But in an extended campaign, I would not see it used very often.
------------------
If you use spell burn, you shift one result category for each ability score point that is burned. How will this play out? Lets look at a small sample chart:
I am using the posted MagicMissle chart from earlier with one modification for to break out a 1 as a Critical failure
1: Critical failure
2-11: Lost. Failure.
12-13: You can throw 1 missile that does 1 point of damage. You must have line of sight to the target. The missile flows unerringly and never misses, though it may be blocked by certain magic (e.g., magic shield).
14-17: As above, but 1 missile does damage 1d4 + caster level.
18-19: As above, but 1d4 missiles that each do damage 1d4 + caster level. All missiles must be aimed at a single target.
20-23: As above, but 1d4 missiles that each do damage 1d6 + caster level. You may aim each missile at an individual target.
24-27: As above, but one extremely powerful missile that does damage 4d12 + caster level. Range is increased to 1,000’, provided line of sight is maintained.
28-29: As above, but 1d8 missiles that each do damage 1d8 + caster level. Range is increased to line of sight, as long as missiles travel in a direct path.
If I did 3 points of spell burn and I roll a 15, I would end up shifting 3 result categories and get a result of 24-27. This allows for some interesting side effects.
If you use one point of spell burn, you can not get a Critical Failure... and unless you roll a 1, you would never lose a spell when cast.
If you use two points of spell burn, you guarantee that you will not lose a spell as even a natural 1 would shift down twice.
I think this would make spell burn a more interesting mechanic and would be more likely to be used during a regular adventure.
Permanency - The bless spell at top levels had the chance to achieve a permanent bless effect (roll of 32+)
-----------------
I would probably suggest removal of any permanent beneficial spell effect for casting a spell. If you want to effect to be permanent, you should probably be enchanting a magical item.
Variable Spell Effects - Sometimes you get a more powerful effect than expected when rolling high.
---------------------------
Change the way the table works so that you can pick any effect up to and including what you rolled from the table. A good example of this is the hole portal spell from a posted play test. If you roll too high the door is gone. This can be a funny situation in the game, but it can also be very disruptive to the continuation of the adventure. If they could possible choose a lesser effect, it would go a long way towards making the Wizard something besides an agent of Chaos.
Fading spell effects - right now some effects (like bless) are d3+1 bonus to hit/spell checks/ability checks for X turns
-------------------------
It might be too much to bring into the game, but it would be a cool mechanic to have fading spell effects for things like bless. The first turn it is effective it would be the full bonus. It would then expire at +1/per turn/hour/day (depending on the die roll) until the effect fades away. It does add additional tracking/paperwork, so I am not sold on this idea.
Corruption/spell fumbles
--------------------------------
I am not positive if our tests were exceptional, but it appeared that corruption for rolling a one was not uncommon. That means that a Wizard is going to morph pretty hard by the time they hit 5th level. Because corruption is not a minor event, I could see that a wizard would be hesitant to cast spells all of the time due to the risks. How about the following suggestion: When rolling a 1 on a d20 and a corruption comes up, the caster can make a saving throw vs. Fortitude (or whatever) to avoid the corruption.
Saving Throw DC's - in the play tests the DC's were set by the spell craft check of the casting wizard.
-------------------
This created situations where the enemies had target DCs of anywhere between 13 and 27. For the same first level spell. With that sort of dynamic range involved, it makes saving throws very unpredictable. This will become even more important as death magic comes into play. I do not know how the Saving Throws will scale, but it appears that spell craft checks grow faster than saving throw bonuses (i.e. most 2nd level characters has +1 or +2 on their Saves --- and the casters had +3 or +4 on their spell craft checks). My suggestion would be to make DC's = 10 + (spell level *2)-1.
You have some good ideas.