what game is most like the DCC RPG?

[mshensley]

N5 actually has some rules for using zero level pc's in it even though it has some insanely tough random encounter tables - 1d4 8HD Ceratosaurs, are you kidding me?

My random encounter tables always consist of what makes sense for the world, it's not based on the level of the pcs. If there are T rex's in the area, there are T rex', regardless of whether the pcs are level one or twenty.

Which is why N5 is a good place to run this experiment. It's friggin scary outside of the town walls- you need a small army of guys to go anywhere.

[goodmangames]

Here's the race/profession table I worked up-

55- Gong Farmer

Many of our entries are similar, but I wanted to note that this one in particular is also shared on both of our 0-level profession lists. What starting equipment do you provide them?

As for zero level pcs, I was wondering how the playtests have explained such large groups of pc's? I mean getting 18 guys (who have almost no skill) together to explore a dungeon seems kind of odd.

If there's a common motivation - rescue kidnapped villagers, destroy the great menace to the town - it can easily become "a mob of angry villagers." I usually start things off in that fashion - the PCs are all natives of the same region and have joined together to march against a common threat. Some may have different motivations or origins but that generally allows most of them to have a reason to work together.

[mshensley]

Many of our entries are similar, but I wanted to note that this one in particular is also shared on both of our 0-level profession lists. What starting equipment do you provide them?

Heh, the gong farmer has to be the funniest one on the list. I just took several lists of medieval jobs I found around the internet and mashed them into a table. I don't really have the time to plan out individualized equipment sets for each one though. As they are all supposed to be part of the local militia, they will start off with leather armor and a spear. Anyone who starts as a hunter, poacher or forester gets a shortbow instead.

[mshensley]

Another question about using the large group of pc's - how do you keep track of where everyone is and what they are doing? 18-20 pc's is a lot bigger group than what I'm used to running. Even if you use minis, it would seem to be tough to keep who is who straight. I'm thinking I might have to resort to using numbered chits or something.

[finarvyn]

Heh, the gong farmer has to be the funniest one on the list. I just took several lists of medieval jobs I found around the internet and mashed them into a table.

What exactly is a "gong farmer"? The terminology isn't familar to me.

[mshensley]

Heh, the gong farmer has to be the funniest one on the list. I just took several lists of medieval jobs I found around the internet and mashed them into a table.

What exactly is a "gong farmer"? The terminology isn't familar to me.

Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good article about it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer

[mshensley]

Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good article about it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer

And that article lead me to this book-

Archers, alchemists, and 98 other medieval jobs you might have loved or loathed

Which led me to this book-

The Seventh Expert: An Interactive Medieval Adventure

And both are available in my library system! I love the internet!

[GnomeBoy]

Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good article about it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer

Now I understand why it was called The Gong Show...

[finarvyn]

Heh, the gong farmer has to be the funniest one on the list. I just took several lists of medieval jobs I found around the internet and mashed them into a table.

What exactly is a "gong farmer"? The terminology isn't familar to me.

Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good article about it-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer

Eeeeew. Can't belive that I have a 1% chance of being one of those. Yikes!

[goodmangames]

Another question about using the large group of pc's - how do you keep track of where everyone is and what they are doing? 18-20 pc's is a lot bigger group than what I'm used to running. Even if you use minis, it would seem to be tough to keep who is who straight. I'm thinking I might have to resort to using numbered chits or something.

What is this "miniature" you refer to??

No battle grids!!!

I have each player lay their character sheets out in front of them, with one sheet clearly closer to the center of the table. Whenever anything goes "bang" (area effect, trap affects the front row of the party, etc.), the character sheets closest to the center of the table count as the "eligible front rank."

Pretty soon the party is thinned out and everybody's down to one character sheet.

[mshensley]

Sorry, I can't keep the positions of twenty plus combatants straight in my head without the use of a map and markers of some kind. That's a good tip about using the character sheets as a kind of marker though.

As for character sheets, I found this one which worked great for this concept. They allow you to put up to 4 pc's on one sheet.

Unfortunately, my game didn't go so well. I only had 3 players show up so I had them roll up 4 zero level pc's each. They suffered almost 50% casualties in the first fight. They pressed on through 3 more encounters only to suffer the tpk in the final one.

The main lesson I learned was the level recommendations in old modules were a cruel joke. There's no way a 1st level group much less zero level guys would survive The Caverns of Thracia. One of these days maybe I'll actually stop believing what these modules say. My experiences with old modules goes something like this-

B2 Keep on the Borderlands- TPK (multiple times actually)
B5 The Horror on the Hill- TPK
The Caverns of Thracia- TPK

Keeping beginning characters alive long enough to reach 2nd level is a big problem for pre 3e D&D games. It's probably one of the biggest reasons for the power inflation we see in 4e.

[JediOre]

The main lesson I learned was the level recommendations in old modules were a cruel joke. There's no way a 1st level group much less zero level guys would survive The Caverns of Thracia. One of these days maybe I'll actually stop believing what these modules say. My experiences with old modules goes something like this-

B2 Keep on the Borderlands- TPK (multiple times actually)
B5 The Horror on the Hill- TPK
The Caverns of Thracia- TPK

Keeping beginning characters alive long enough to reach 2nd level is a big problem for pre 3e D&D games. It's probably one of the biggest reasons for the power inflation we see in 4e.

Wow. Now I've not DMed the Caverns of Thracia, but I've DMed the others numerous times. I've never had a total party kill, although B5 came very, very close. The key I found, then and now, is the players have got to know when to retreat and they have to find safe havens. For B2, The Keep was a frequent hang out for days when the party had taken it on the chin. One group found the tree of the crazy old man a great place to hide out once he and his cat were dead. Another group would retreat to the lizardmen's lair after it was wiped out when harassing the bandits. In B5, the old ladies house was the go-to place (and I can't remember if the ladies were friendly as written or did I change them?), with a second runner up being back across the river to the fort. Once in the under caves of B5, they would hide in a secure room and post watches.

It is a common point in our early level adventures to spend more in-game days outside the adventure than in-side!

[DCCfan]

Heh, the gong farmer has to be the funniest one on the list. I just took several lists of medieval jobs I found around the internet and mashed them into a table.

What exactly is a "gong farmer"? The terminology isn't familar to me.

Surprisingly, wikipedia has a good article about it-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gong_farmer

NASTY! NASTY! NASTY! I would much rather die fighting hords of undead than work even one night as a gong farmer.

[JediOre]

NASTY! NASTY! NASTY! I would much rather die fighting hords of undead than work even one night as a gong farmer.

Hey, it's honest work. If that was the only way I could provide for my family, I'd bring my own shovel!

[DCCfan]

NASTY! NASTY! NASTY! I would much rather die fighting hords of undead than work even one night as a gong farmer.

Hey, it's honest work. If that was the only way I could provide for my family, I'd bring my own shovel!

You can have mine. I'm going to go adventuring and take my chances!

[Fabio.MilitoPagliara]

And that article lead me to this book-

Archers, alchemists, and 98 other medieval jobs you might have loved or loathed

I just ordered it on amazon.co.uk

[geordie racer]

what game is most like the DCC RPG?

In attitude, maybe Gabor Lux's Sword and Magic: Adventures on Formalhaut

Intelligent streamlined d20-style ruleset backed up by a quality Sword, Sorcery and Weird Science setting.

[mshensley]

I just ordered it on amazon.co.uk

I just finished reading it and The Seventh Expert. Both are geared towards kids (middle school level) but are still pretty good and quick reads that are chock full of info about medieval life. I especially liked The Seventh Expert as it is a game where you have to manage the development of a town. It was like playing a computer sim on paper.

[moes1980]

I would say so far that the most similar game is DnD Basic, because elves, halflings, and dwarves are their own class, and sounds like they follow how those classes were intended to work (taht is, in both, the elf is a fighter/mage, the dwarf is basically a fighters, etc). It is very simple character creation and simple rules (if you leave out all the extra optional rules that are mentioned thought the Rules Encyclopedia). Deat is also right around the corner for all the players, especially at low levels. What yuo will be missing are the more excting spell casting rules, the luck attribute and its associated rules, and the might dead or arms rules, the critical hit and fumble tables, and probably some other stuff (like rules for two weapon fighting, etc). But I imagen DnD Basic has the closest feel to what DCCRPG is going to be even if it is missing components. Or, maybe because DnD basic was the system I cut my teeth under and I have lot of fond memories of those days, it is what I associate with when Goodman talks about "the good old days" and so I am projected what I hope DCCRPG will be like. Hard to know for sure untill we get our hands on some more rules

[finarvyn]

I would say so far that the most similar game is DnD Basic, because elves, halflings, and dwarves are their own class, and sounds like they follow how those classes were intended to work (that is, in both, the elf is a fighter/mage, the dwarf is basically a fighters, etc)

If one has to draw a direct comparrison, this is probably a good one. It's dangerous to compare since DCC has elements of 3E, elements of OD&D, and some brand new systems not really seen in any of the D&D editions. The "game most like" is sort of dangerous, but it's a lot like Holmes Basic in many ways, particularly in regards to the race-class thing.

[moes1980]

I would say so far that the most similar game is DnD Basic, because elves, halflings, and dwarves are their own class, and sounds like they follow how those classes were intended to work (that is, in both, the elf is a fighter/mage, the dwarf is basically a fighters, etc)

If one has to draw a direct comparrison, this is probably a good one. It's dangerous to compare since DCC has elements of 3E, elements of OD&D, and some brand new systems not really seen in any of the D&D editions. The "game most like" is sort of dangerous, but it's a lot like Holmes Basic in many ways, particularly in regards to the race-class thing.

Very true. I doub't it will play much at all like DnD basic or 3.5 or any other system in terms of mechanics, but it seems to me to draw the most insperiation from DnD basic in terms of style (even the character sheet is extreemly similar to the one on the back of the DnD basic book for levels 1-5). But, while both systems have elf as its own fighter/mage, or a dwarf allways being a fighter, I think the classes will play quite a bit different due to how magic and combat are so different. Alot more interesting things will happen when a DCCRPG fighter makes an attack, or an elf casts a spell, than what would happen in DnD basic.

I love DnD basic but can never get any one else to play it. I hope that DCCRPG will capture the feel of the old game while at the same time offering enough flair and excitment to attract more players. (I have to admit, combat in DnD basic is little more than taking turns rolling d20's and hoping you hit before you get hit).

[finarvyn]

I hope that DCCRPG will capture the feel of the old game while at the same time offering enough flair and excitment to attract more players.

It does!

I have to admit, combat in DnD basic is little more than taking turns rolling d20's and hoping you hit before you get hit.

For some characters, DCC combat may still be like this. Not at all for the fighters, however, as they can do all kinds of cool things. Can be quite cinematic.

[smathis]

I have to admit, combat in DnD basic is little more than taking turns rolling d20's and hoping you hit before you get hit.

I agree and disagree here. I think it depends on the DM and the players. But a lot on the DM. We played a short LotFP (Basic D&D retro-clone) game recently and the players were trying all sorts of things. It helps when the DM does stuff first. So when this thing popped out of a sarcophagus, crawled along the wall and jumped on the Cleric's face... yeah, people started doing all sorts of stuff. From trying to choke it out MMA-style to trying a flying dropkick. It also helps if you don't penalize them for trying something out of the box. I usually let the player's attack damage be whatever their weapon is, plus or minus a die type based on description.

You'll see a lot more camels getting punched if a Fighter can do a d6 or d8 with his fist -- instead of a d3. Kinda falls in line with OD&D's only using a d6 for damage. Of course, taking 8 points of damage from a punch won't kill somebody (usually). But it is fun, and that's what I'm going for.

I hope DCC gives some guidelines for spicing up combat. DM advice, mechanics or whatnot. It sounds like a blast. So maybe they already have that part figured out.

[GnomeBoy]

...or a dwarf allways being a fighter...

Interesting Side Note: Having just introduced my 11-year-old son to Holmes Basic last night, I'd been reading up on it a bit the day previous. Dwarves and Halflings are fighters, unless they opt to be thieves(!). Page 6, under --what else? -- the paragraph on Fighting Men.

I've noticed other tidbits of information only mentioned once, located in less-than-intuitive places. Let's just say, as the editor of "Holmes Basic", Holmes could've used an editor...

[Harley Stroh]

You'll see a lot more camels getting punched if a Fighter can do a d6 or d8 with his fist ...

This had me laughing out loud. So in lieu of unarmed damage, you mostly use axes and swords on your camels?

We definitely need an image of a warrior fending off a dire camel in the MDoA section.

//H