The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

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The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by finarvyn »

goodmangames wrote:…magic is a very different conversation.
Okay, I’d like to turn back to this. :D
goodmangames wrote:For all the people who refer to D&D magic as "Vancian," how many people have actually read all the books in Vance's Dying Earth series? And then read the Harold Shea series by de Camp & Pratt? At its core, D&D magic has a greater resemblance to de Camp & Pratt than Vance.
goodmangames wrote:Both Vance and de Camp-and-Pratt feature something that's missing from D&D now: unpredictable spellcasting. Remember when Harold Shea tries to summon a dragon, and actually summons 1/10 of a dragon (a pseudodragon)? Then on his next casting he accidentally gets 100 dragons? And Cugel the Clever suffers similar misfortunes when trying to cast spells against his nemesis Iucounu?
goodmangames wrote:Another implication is for magic. DCC RPG has a randomized results table for every spell. Just as attacks utilize a BAB, spells utilize a spell check modifier. But I like magic to be MAGICAL.
I’m a little nervous about the “randomized results” thing, not because it would be a bad idea in design but because my wife (who reads recent fantasy instead of the pulp S&S books) likes her magic to have a predictable effect and she is afraid that her character will get shafted by random tables.

Normally I’d just ignore her fears, but she plays mages in every single game I run. Her view is “why role play if I can’t use magic? No magic is too much like the real world.”

Anything I can tell her to make her less nervous about this aspect of the game?
goodmangames wrote:So in addition to the randomized table for each spell, every wizard has unique traits associated with their own casting of a spell. Without getting into too much detail, this is where one mage can be inherently more powerful at casting magic missile than another. Both mages might get a +2 on their spell check...but one rolls the standard d20 and the other rolls d24...
This is sounding a lot better, because it will allow for some specialization and individualized spellcasters. This sounds like a neat design feature, and the unusual dice could be a great step in pulling this off! Indeed, my wife is a big fan of this concept.
goodmangames wrote:Creating a magic system that accurately reflects magic as it's depicted in the foundational works of D&D is not the same as what D&D spellcasting has become.
I agree that the D&D spell casting system has diverged quite a bit from the literature, particularly in later versions of the game which include all of memorization, spell components, words, and gestures.

The trick I see here is that there are so many different types of spellcasting in the source material. Elric summons elementals, Thoth Amon does elaborate rituals, Harold Shea requires components, witches brew potions, some wizards use scrolls or spellbooks, and the list goes on. Putting together a single system to handle all of the source material seems like quite a challenge.

Another thought:
I've been playing a C&C game with my family where I tried a slightly different spellcasting system. Instead of having spell slots such as is found in traditional D&D/C&C I have been tinkering with a spell point system, which in itself isn't particularly new and/or innovative. What I did was put limits on several things:
1) Total spell points
2) Maximum spell level cast
3) Maximum number of spells cast

Part of the problem with most spell point systems is that they allow a magic-user to sacrifice big spells in order to get an absurd number of low-level spells. (One becomes a spell gatling gun, so to speak.) My inclusion of #3 above gives a limit to how many low-level spells can be cast, so the magic-user has to strike a balance between quality and quantity. It seems to be working well so far.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by JediOre »

Finarvyn, you are putting a lot of thought into this!

I'm certainly interested in seeing how this unfolds. Currently, I'm not sure if any of my gang will be interested in playing more than one RPG. Regardless, I'm personally interested in the whole design concept.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by finarvyn »

The thing is, my home games are also experimental most of the time. I'll ask the group "say, what if we try this..." and then we do it. I may run something for a session or two and ask for feedback, and often tweak it over and over to see what we like or dislike.

It helps that most of my group isn't really "into" knowing all of the rules. I tell them what to roll and they do it.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by finarvyn »

Another thing is that I have a two-week winter break (I'm a teacher) and no new DCC RPG rules set to look at. With all this free time on my hands I can't help but speculate. :wink:
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by stacktrace »

I hear you Fin. Here is hoping that DCC Day next week includes a kickoff of the Public playtesting, though that is likely just too much hope. I also have been looking forward to the release of this system, it mirrors so much of what I have been trying to do, but so much better.

To get back on topic, the one thing I have heard so far that worries me is the Arcane spell "miscast"? rolls/checks. An example from one playtest report was a Wizard that had to sacrifice a pound of their own flesh to power the spell. Now something like that cannot be too common now, can it? If it is uncommon or rare, I am all for it, but if every spell cast requires a roll on a table that includes items like this example, that worries me a bit.

The spell casting tables per spell, all for those, they sound great and look to set this game apart. Just worried about those casting side-effects and how they come into play. But overall, not really worried, it looks like the game is in good hands, and hopefull a public playtest is not too far in the future. As the rules seem to mirror a lot of what I am already using (but better), I will swap the rules right into my current campaign when they do become available.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by goodmangames »

The spellcasting system is great in play. Everyone who has played a wizard or cleric has loved it. But it's not easily conveyed in writing, short of copying big chunks of the rules, because (a) there are several parts that interact and (b) the randomization has to be taken in the context of the other random elements of game play. So let me lead into this from a side street...

First, know that the DCC RPG is impossible to power-game, for various reasons, most of them related to the heavy influence of randomization...on everything. I won't say much more than that, but there's no way to min/max this system. What makes it still fun is that the randomization is "bracketed" within certain limits of effect.

For example: there is a critical hit system, which Harley and I have been spending a lot of time working on, which is a ton of fun. Every class has a crit die and crit table for each level. For example, a level 1 warrior has a 1d12 crit die on crit table III, while a level 1 wizard has a 1d6 crit die on level I. As someone advances in level, their crit die gets higher and they may jump to different crit tables. (One crit table, used by thieves and elves, represents finesse. Another, used by 0-level characters, wizards, and halflings, represents lucky but not necessarily lethal blows. Another set, used by warriors in a steadily advancing progression, represents power and strength. And so on.) The combination of crit die and crit tables allows for lots of exciting random results in combat...and emulates pretty well the kind of combat you read about with John Carter and Conan and Elric...but the randomization runs in brackets. Level 4 randomization typically results in "better randomness" than level 1 randomization.

We're still playing a lot with the crit rules, so no more on them now. But that's a roundabout way of leading up to spells, which work in a similar manner. Imagine magic missile cast by a novice, and then the same spell cast by the world's most powerful magician. Clearly the latter caster should achieve a more powerful result. That's the role of the spell table. Either way you get a magic missile...but the apprentice with a +1 spell check rolls 1d20+1, and the arch-mage rolls 1d20+12. They roll on the same table, but the apprentice can't get higher than a 21 while the archmage might be rolling a 32. Specific to magic missile, the lowest result on the table is this:
You can throw 1 missile that does 1 point of damage. You must have line of sight to the target. The missile flows unerringly and never misses, though it may be blocked by certain magic (e.g., magic shield).
...while the highest result is this...
You throw 1d10 missiles that each do damage 1d10 + caster level. The caster may direct these missiles individually as a single action, or may direct them all at a single target who is not present or visible, provided he has specific knowledge of that target. In this case, the caster must have a physical memento of the target (hair, fingernail, vial of blood, etc.) and spend 1 turn concentrating to cast the spell, then continue concentrating as the missiles seek their target. The missiles will aim for this target even if it is concealed or invisible, though they have a maximum range of 100 miles. The missiles will turn, curve, re-trace their route, and make every effort to reach the target, although they cannot cross planes. The missiles can travel up to 10 miles per second provided no obstacles are present, but speed is much lower if, for example, they must navigate underground caverns. Provided a direct route exists, the missiles will strike the target unerringly.
And of course there are many other results in between those two. Magic scales with the caster even on the same spell -- a level 1 spell steadily becomes better and better as the caster advances in level, and a level 1 spell cast by a level 10 wizard can do more damage than a level 4 spell cast by a lower-level wizard. The tables go quite high such that a more powerful caster can achieve more powerful results -- for magic missile, the highest result noted above requires a spell check of at least +12, which, in general, would require a wizard of level 9 or higher. In other words, there's randomization, but it's "bracketed" -- you always get a magic missile, but maybe it's better today than the one you cast yesterday, or yours is more powerful than mine...

Beyond that, there are several subsystems. D&D magic is pretty straightforward: you memorize a spell, and lose it when you cast it. This is Vance at his most literal interpretation; his wizards can memorize two, three, maybe four spells, fewer if they're more complex. Gygax took this straight from the source. DCC RPG adds randomization and amplification of results by casters of different levels, both of which are also present in Vance (and other Appendix N authors). DCC RPG also adds elements to capture some of Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard, which were very strong influences on D&D but whose magic systems aren't reflected, as well as Moorcock to a lesser extent. Almost all the magic in Robert E. Howard's Conan series revolves around demonic aid -- there's always a demonic power in the background, aiding the sorcerer, and the sorcerer (always a nemesis of Conan) typically loses his power when that demon's aid is no longer present. This is also evident in Moorcock ("Aid me Arioch! Blood for Arioch!") and of course it's a key theme of Lovecraft. How to reflect that? Well, it's still magic, but with a source, and a source that usually wants something in return. Thus is born the spellburn system, which allows a spellcaster to seek aid from an otherworldly patron -- at a price. A spellcaster can sacrifice physical ability scores (Strength, Agility, or Stamina) in a 1:1 ratio to enhance his spell check. Sacrifice 4 points of strength and add +4 to your next spell check. The ability score loss heals -- slowly -- and there is a table to provide inspiration of exactly what act is committed to cause the loss of that Strength. So your low-level wizard...or, let's say, elf...who appeals to the aid of an otherworldly power...say, Arioch...may get that aid -- but only if he drains his own physical stamina and contributes three souls in the next hour. And of course, at the DM's discretion, that otherworldly power should be role-played, and may come back at a later date asking for something in return! Add it all together, and your low-level wizard may be able to achieve a very powerful magic missile to save the entire party from certain death -- then he collapses to the ground, exhausted and drained of strength, and has to pay off a favor to a demon someday in the future.

Now mix into all of this what I call "mercurial magic." To quote the manuscript:
The firstborn son of a witch hanged at trial wields black magic adroitly. An orphan raised by satyrs is a precocious student of druidry. Cosmic caprice determines skill in magic: birth order, family lineage, horoscope, and matters even more abstruse have as much influence on a wizard’s spellcasting as his hard work and native intelligence.
And this is where it gets even more fun. Every wizard, for every spell, has a randomly determined "side effect," so to speak. Luck scores come into play here...a wizard with a higher Luck typically has more beneficial side effects. Side effects can vary from random toadstools sprouting nearby whenever the spell is cast, to loud noises or energy bursts. So that same magic missile in the hands of two different wizards will not only vary based on their casting power, and not only vary based on whether one of them calls to a greater power for aid, and not only vary based on the inherent variability in the table...but will also vary because they each get a slightly different effect when casting it.

I actually had a really fun playtest at one con where a player had a spell that was useless in combat (I forget the exact spell, but it was something like comprehend languages) but it had the mercurial side effect of causing freezing, damaging cold whenever he cast it. So he would up casting that spell frequently, solely for the side effect, while in combat. It was fun. That is a little more extreme than I originally intended the results to be, but you get the idea...spellcasting varies from caster to caster.

And, finally, we have corruption. Any time a wizard rolls a natural 1 on a spell check, bad things happen. Bad. Luck scores again come into play here. Lucky wizards may just have a spell misfire of some kind...but unlucky wizards may find themselves covered in boils, strange growths, or painful lesions. Not overnight, of course, but a lifetime of exposure to demons, extraplanar radiation, elemental energies, and the servants of Chaos isn't particularly good for one's health. Casting by an unlucky wizard makes it clear that there are consequences to dabbling with greater powers. Don't roll a 1 on the spell check!

So there you have the general summary. There are several levels of randomization, generally "bracketed" or "contained" by level and other factors, such that spells are never fully predictable. Magic in the DCC RPG really feels quite magical. When you cast a spell, you get a result associated with that spell, but the edges are "fuzzy" so to speak...
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by mythfish »

Jeez...I've played the game and that little write up got me all excited for it! :D
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Ogrepuppy »

Oh.

My.

God.

This game is gonna rock.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by finarvyn »

goodmangames wrote:D&D magic is pretty straightforward: you memorize a spell, and lose it when you cast it. This is Vance at his most literal interpretation; his wizards can memorize two, three, maybe four spells, fewer if they're more complex. Gygax took this straight from the source. DCC RPG adds randomization and amplification of results by casters of different levels, both of which are also present in Vance (and other Appendix N authors). DCC RPG also adds elements to capture some of Lovecraft and Robert E. Howard, which were very strong influences on D&D but whose magic systems aren't reflected, as well as Moorcock to a lesser extent. Almost all the magic in Robert E. Howard's Conan series revolves around demonic aid -- there's always a demonic power in the background, aiding the sorcerer, and the sorcerer (always a nemesis of Conan) typically loses his power when that demon's aid is no longer present. This is also evident in Moorcock ("Aid me Arioch! Blood for Arioch!") and of course it's a key theme of Lovecraft. How to reflect that? Well, it's still magic, but with a source, and a source that usually wants something in return. Thus is born the spellburn system, which allows a spellcaster to seek aid from an otherworldly patron -- at a price. A spellcaster can sacrifice physical ability scores (Strength, Agility, or Stamina) in a 1:1 ratio to enhance his spell check. Sacrifice 4 points of strength and add +4 to your next spell check. The ability score loss heals -- slowly -- and there is a table to provide inspiration of exactly what act is committed to cause the loss of that Strength. So your low-level wizard...or, let's say, elf...who appeals to the aid of an otherworldly power...say, Arioch...may get that aid -- but only if he drains his own physical stamina and contributes three souls in the next hour. And of course, at the DM's discretion, that otherworldly power should be role-played, and may come back at a later date asking for something in return! Add it all together, and your low-level wizard may be able to achieve a very powerful magic missile to save the entire party from certain death -- then he collapses to the ground, exhausted and drained of strength, and has to pay off a favor to a demon someday in the future.
This is sounding better and better. I know that the fiction of Appendix N has a blend of the serious (Conan, Elric...) with the whimsical (Dying Earth, Harold Shea...) and I was concerned with how to blend the two into a single magic system, however your examples make this look quite possible and really exciting.
goodmangames wrote:I actually had a really fun playtest at one con where a player had a spell that was useless in combat (I forget the exact spell, but it was something like comprehend languages) but it had the mercurial side effect of causing freezing, damaging cold whenever he cast it. So he would up casting that spell frequently, solely for the side effect, while in combat. It was fun. That is a little more extreme than I originally intended the results to be, but you get the idea...spellcasting varies from caster to caster.
This side effect thing is awesome! Imagine the side effect being more useful than the spell itself! :lol:
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by stacktrace »

W...o...w...

This game is sounding better all the time. Thank you for sharing that writeup. A rough release date of November 2011? too far....
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by joela »

mythfish wrote:Jeez...I've played the game and that little write up got me all excited for it! :D
I participated in one playtest and already heart the rpg. The above write-up -- and the fact that min-maxers are gonna hate the game (good riddance) -- just gave me a nerdgasm. 8)
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Black Dougal »

joela wrote:just gave me a nerdgasm.
Agreed. Total nerdgasm.

I can't wait to play this again in February. :-)
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Beedo »

So - can anyone tell me where in the Appendix N type stuff we get shields, and magic missiles, and slinging lightning bolts around? I just figured EGG and Co read too many Doctor Strange comics.

As I think about how the DCC RPG would get back to the Sword & Sorcery roots, I'd be hoping for rituals, sorcery, demon summoning, more of the stuff you see in Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, and REH. Even the Lankhmar wizards aren't exactly combat experts like D&D wizards.

*Some* of the Vancian spells seem that way - looking at you, Excellent Prismatic Spray. Even Iouconnu mostly has summoned creatures do the bad things to Cugel.

I have *not* read the L Sprague de Camp stuff - it's on the "read soon" list - maybe the action-Jackson-combat-wizards came out of there?

Anyway - looking forward to the beta to see if magic really does return to the roots...
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by goodmangames »

Beedo wrote:So - can anyone tell me where in the Appendix N type stuff we get shields, and magic missiles, and slinging lightning bolts around? I just figured EGG and Co read too many Doctor Strange comics.
Based on this comment, I'm sure you're aware that the cover art to the original edition of D&D was lifted from a Dr. Strange comic book panel, but in case you were not:

http://grognardia.blogspot.com/2009/04/ ... ethod.html
Beedo wrote:As I think about how the DCC RPG would get back to the Sword & Sorcery roots, I'd be hoping for rituals, sorcery, demon summoning, more of the stuff you see in Lovecraft, Clark Ashton Smith, and REH. Even the Lankhmar wizards aren't exactly combat experts like D&D wizards.
Clark Ashton Smith is the elephant in the room when it comes to Appendix N. Everyone agrees he ought to be on the list, but he's not! That said, I am a big fan and am counting him as part of the sword & sorcery roots. And you need not worry regarding sword & sorcery roots associated with some of the material noted above. One of the core assumptions is a style of magic rooted in supernatural allies for the wizard.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Bradfield »

Hello everyone.
goodmangames wrote:DCC RPG adds randomization and amplification of results by casters of different levels, both of which are also present in Vance (and other Appendix N authors). ...
Don't the current rules already cover that?
For example, a spell such asmagic missile already has random effects, and also effects that grow in power as the caster levels up.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Beedo »

I didn't know about that overt D&D and Doctor Strange connection - that's kinda funny they were outed.

Yes - about CAS - I didn't even realize he *wasn't* part of the AD&D Appendix N until you just said so. He's in the Moldvay recommended reading (and Averoigne is explicit throughout the old X2 Castle Amber).

I'm encouraged by reading above (the descriptions of augmenting magic ala Elric) and your note here. My first reaction to the DCC announcement was that we didn't need another retro clone fracturing the old school player base, but I see the vision is quite a bit more ambitious - instead of reinforcing D&D tropes through another version of D&D, going back and drawing inspiration directly from the source literature.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by GnomeBoy »

Not to re-earn my Threadjacker +1 bonus, but...

Wasn't a lot of the early art, erm, 'influenced' by comic book art...?

Just sayin'.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Fabio.MilitoPagliara »

this is GREAT!
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by mythfish »

Bradfield wrote: For example, a spell such asmagic missile already has random effects, and also effects that grow in power as the caster levels up.
Not to the extent that the DCC RPG does it. The random effects in DCC RPG go way beyond "1d4+1" damage.
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by DCCfan »

goodmangames wrote: I actually had a really fun playtest at one con where a player had a spell that was useless in combat (I forget the exact spell, but it was something like comprehend languages) but it had the mercurial side effect of causing freezing, damaging cold whenever he cast it. So he would up casting that spell frequently, solely for the side effect, while in combat. It was fun. That is a little more extreme than I originally intended the results to be, but you get the idea...spellcasting varies from caster to caster.
Casting a spell just for the side effect is just the kind of wonder and fun I want to bring back into the magic in my game. :D
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Fonkin Hoddypeak »

goodmangames wrote:The spellcasting system is great in play.

This sounds really good! The random effects and side-effects should make spellcasting really fun and have an authentic feel to them. The corruption rules remind me of WHFRP, another great magic system that has died in revision.

Some questions that you may have answered already that I couldn't find: will there now be no need for 'spell chains' (i.e. sleep-> deep slumber), since spells like Magic Missile maintain their usefulness even at high levels? That would certainly simplify the game without taking away any of the fun. And can you tell us a little more about the 'mercurial magic' you mentioned? How will this be used to flavor spellcasters so that one wizard is different than another? And last, will the 'Spellburn' you mentioned replace 'spells per day'?

Thanks!
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finarvyn
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by finarvyn »

DCCfan wrote:
goodmangames wrote:I actually had a really fun playtest at one con where a player had a spell that was useless in combat (I forget the exact spell, but it was something like comprehend languages) but it had the mercurial side effect of causing freezing, damaging cold whenever he cast it. So he would up casting that spell frequently, solely for the side effect, while in combat. It was fun. That is a little more extreme than I originally intended the results to be, but you get the idea...spellcasting varies from caster to caster.
Casting a spell just for the side effect is just the kind of wonder and fun I want to bring back into the magic in my game. :D
I know. I was telling my gaming group Joseph's story about Comprehend Languages and they all agreed that this was a game they wanted to try! :D

We'll see how they like it, the first time they get blasted by their own spell, however! :lol:
mythfish wrote:
Bradfield wrote:For example, a spell such asmagic missile already has random effects, and also effects that grow in power as the caster levels up.
Not to the extent that the DCC RPG does it. The random effects in DCC RPG go way beyond "1d4+1" damage.
Yeah. Spells have had minor damage effects due to die rolls for a long time, but that's not the kind of thing we're talking about here. We're looking at full side-effect tables for botched spells. (Or, apparently, even some not botched! 8) )
Marv / Finarvyn
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goodmangames
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by goodmangames »

Fonkin Hoddypeak wrote:Some questions that you may have answered already that I couldn't find: will there now be no need for 'spell chains' (i.e. sleep-> deep slumber), since spells like Magic Missile maintain their usefulness even at high levels? That would certainly simplify the game without taking away any of the fun.
Very insightful! You are correct, the fact that a higher-level mage can draw more powerful impacts from a lower-level spell means you don't need as many "more powerful versions of the same spell."
Fonkin Hoddypeak wrote:And can you tell us a little more about the 'mercurial magic' you mentioned? How will this be used to flavor spellcasters so that one wizard is different than another?
Every wizard rolls on the mercurial magic table for every one of his spells. That table determines the unique nature of how HE in particular casts that spell. There are a lot of entries on that table. So every wizard's version of magic missile is slightly different.
Fonkin Hoddypeak wrote:And last, will the 'Spellburn' you mentioned replace 'spells per day'?
There are no "spells per day" in the traditional D&D sense, but there are "spells known," and higher-level wizards know more spells. So let's say your wizard knows 4 spells. When your wizard casts a spell, he makes a spell check. On a high roll, he achieves some result with the spell (the higher the roll, the better the result) and he retains the spell to cast it again. On a low roll, there is no result, and he loses the spell. (And if you roll a 1, bad things happen!) So those 4 spells you know could result in four fizzles. Or you could effectively cast the spells over and over and over again all day long.

Spellcasters in DCC RPG can be "streaky"...I've had spellcasters who fire on all cylinders and manage to throw out spell after spell, and I've had others that just continually fail their checks and accomplish absolutely nothing. And plenty in between.

Spellburn breaks the randomization (somewhat) by letting you make a pact with a supernatural power, and improve your chances of casting a spell. There is a table to roll on to determine the exact nature of the spellburn bargain, or you can role-play with the judge. The classic example is Elric: "Blood for Arioch!" Promise a demon three souls, and perhaps he'll aid your spell. Or not. You role-play the spellburn negotiation, sacrifice the appropriate ability scores, and increase your spell check by that much. For example, sacrifice 4 Strength (to simulate, say, draining a pint of your blood) and you get +4 to your next spell check. (This is temporary ability score loss, healing at 1 point per day.) When you use spellburn, you can attempt to cast a spell you know but have already lost for the day by failing a prior check. And you gain a bonus equal to the drained ability score, so you improve your odds of casting. So, conceivably, a wizard could keep spellburning to keep casting spells, round after round, until he collapses in a heap at 1 Strength and 1 Stamina and 1 Agility...

Spellburn is most fun when the judge takes careful notes and has your supernatural dealmaker reappear at a future date to lay claim to what he is owed. :)
Joseph Goodman
Goodman Games
www.goodman-games.com
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Fonkin Hoddypeak
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Fonkin Hoddypeak »

Sounds awesome! Thanks Goodman Games!
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Beedo
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Re: The DCC RPG and Spellslinging

Post by Beedo »

That is a very cool approach you're taking - trying to strike a balance between playability and the subjective requirements of pacts and oaths with supernatural beings. I like how it's sounding.
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