Alignment

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JRR
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Alignment

Post by JRR »

Being an AD&D player since 1981, off and on, I'm more used to the 9 alignment acxis than the 3 alignment system of OD&D and DCC. I'm unsure what alignment for npcs, and indeed, my own characters if I ever get to play instead of dm. Consider the following person:

A man who works hard to give his family what they need, thinks stealing is wrong, is helpful to his neighbors, even those that wouldn't return the favor in a million years. He was the first to volunteer to hunt the goblins who sacked the merchant caravan last year. He opens doors for people, is generally nice, and does the right thing, but he doesn't give a damn about the law. When the baron put a curfew on after the caravan raids, he snuck over the town wall instead of obeying it. There's a law about carrying weapons in town, he carries a long hunting knife anyway, though he'd never use it except in self defense. Ordinarily, he wouldn't harm a soul, but he hunted the people down who murdered his wife and killed them - and it took a long time for them to die. He treats people as he would want to be treated, but hurt him or his friends, and he will visit vengeance upon you - hard.

I'd normally call this guy chaotic good, but in DCC, I'm not sure what alignment he'd be. Thoughts?
Gameogre
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Re: Alignment

Post by Gameogre »

Lawful


In DCC RPG alignment is more like what team do you play for.

The Lawful team promotes civilization and order,justice and law. Certainly not all adherents to Law are upstanding go by the book citizens but all of them cheer for that team if falling a little short themselves.

The Chaotic team promotes freedom at any cost,the breaking of all bindings and total fluctuation of reality. Certainly not all adherents to Chaos are violent sociopaths bent of reality bending destruction but they do cheer for that team.

The Neutral team is the smallest team and suffer from motivation issues as well as no one set goal. Two mindsets dominate this team. The first is that both Law and Chaos are nesesarry and should be kept in balance so as to promote the advancement intelligent thought and prevent both stagnation as well as unending change. The second mindset is that nothing matters and all this is irreverent and stupid. This mindset cares nothing for mortal concerns and frankly although the results of such behavior might seem evil or good it only seems that way from your petty and limited point of view. Certainly not all adherents to Neutrality are of either of these two mindsets but most of them are. The first mindset cheers for there team but the second doesn't cheer at all but accidentally destroyed billions of the first mindset when it snuffed out a star for its morning coffee.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Alignment

Post by GnomeBoy »

Yeah, Law.

Re-read the last paragraph on page 24, and the last sentence of the Lawful entry. Lawful does not relate as much to the laws of men as it does the Gods of Law; it's a Big Picture system of Alignment, not a "did you steal this pack of bubblegum?" system of alignment.
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Rostranor
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Re: Alignment

Post by Rostranor »

I agree law. Some helpful resources would be to google Michael Moorcock and check out the wiki on Eternal Champion and more specifically the hyperlink to Law and Chaos. Also googling Law and Choas Alignment brings up some good stuff.

Adventurer Conqueror King System also has a good description of Law,Neutral,Chaos alignment systems and I have heard that Warhammerndoes as well.
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Skyscraper
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Re: Alignment

Post by Skyscraper »

I also think Lawful is what reflects what you depict.

Here is the first part of the Chaotic entry in the DCC rulebook:
Chaotic characters believe fundamentally in entropy and seek constantly to undermine or rule those around them. They are willing to disrupt the natural order of things – including established governments, guilds, and relationships – if they see a material benefit in doing so. They are open to agreements with supernatural powers, even if such agreements risk the primacy of man by allowing strange beings into the material plane. Fundamentally, chaotic characters choose the path of greatest personal power and success over any greater principle.
And here is one passage of the Lawful entry:
In mundane life, there are many shades of lawful behavior, and not all lawful characters agree on the same course of action at any time
I don't think that a lawful character will invariably support the local authority. He might follow other precepts or moral values that point towards unity or supporting his peers. The driving force behind Lawful is the group, in any one or more of its facets.

Chaotic, on the other hand, will do what they do because they find some personal gain for themselves. That's pretty much the driving force behind chaotic: me, myself, and I. Not the group.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Alignment

Post by GnomeBoy »

Skyscraper wrote:I don't think that a lawful character will invariably support the local authority. He might follow other precepts or moral values that point towards unity or supporting his peers.
This is a good point -- A Lawful character might not support the laws of men, when those laws are divisive. Segregation laws, for one obvious example. A Lawful character could consistently and absolutely defy those laws and still be a Lawful character, acting within their alignment.
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oncelor
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Re: Alignment

Post by oncelor »

In my latest two campaigns, law and chaos are about a character's attitude toward polity and civilization. A lawful character can oppose laws that are bad for civilization. Nice people might be chaotic if they are opposed to cities. Elves, in my campaigns, generally hate all cities, and so they are chaotic, but they are otherwise very noble and good creatures. Mean or cruel people can be lawful if they still promote cities. Similarly the rivalry between the gods is largely concerned with cities.

In my older campaigns law and chaos were more synonymous with nice and nasty.
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