Goodman Games

Yeah so I love what I have play tested about DCC rpg and feel it was going to be a GREAT game. I was all excited and had a few of my players lined up for more. Then life happened and the game was delayed.

That put a downer on things but I wasn't too worried. I knew it would be out sooner or later and with the players having a favorable attitude about it I was sure I could get them hyped again.

Then the news about D&D Next hit and the open play-testing.

This has blown all thoughts of any rpg out of my players frigging minds. Everyone is gearing up for a year or two of massive D&D Next fun(I guess with the assumption that it will not suck) and any hope I had on playing DCC rpg without a hard fought battle ended.

Don't get me wrong, D&D Next/5E (whatever) might be a cool game and I will give it a look when it can be downloaded but I already did all that with DCC and frankly I love it.

I think if the campaign was already underway when the play-test was released I wouldn't have a issue but as it stands with the late release I'm not sure that DCC rpg will get a spot at my table (unless D&D Next sucks,I guess that would be wrong to hope for? ) without a outright war.


So I felt the need to come here and post this and yell HURRY UP FOR GODS SAKE!.


I'm sure you are already going as fast as you can to create a great product and all but as my Dad used to say"Put some Stank on it" Ok well I never was exactly sure what that meant but um Hurry up!

You bring up some excellent points, and ones that have crossed my mind in the last couple of days. I agree that the timing of the 5E announcement has the potential to kill a lot of otherwise hot projects out there, which is unfortunate.

However, think about this:

1. You can still play DCC, even if the final version isn't printed yet. Go with the free PDF Beta and keep your group hooked on it. They can still play lots of old school modules using the old rules.

2. We don't know WotC's timeline for playtest release, but you have to assume that Goodman Games has a decent head start. The final DCC release probably will be before the 5E playtest release. (My best guess, based on no inside information.)

3. While 5E remains a potential, DCC will be a reality. If you look at the 3PP threads you can see just how much product support is going to happen in the next few months. We're talking about roughly 8 modules from Goodman Games plus at least a half dozen other companies already mentioning modules and products ready to launch shortly after the game does.

4. We don't really know if 5E will appeal at all to the old school crowd. With Monte Cook as a designer, I suspect it will contain a strong 3E base with hints of 4E and hopefully 1E/2E somewhere in there. I'm looking forward to seeing what gets put together, but I have this sense that it won't really compete with DCC in terms of the same demographic. My feeling is that the potential awesomeness of 5E could become the "could have been"; the reality probably won't live up to the hype for fans of any single edition since it will likely have some elements of all editions. Enthusiasm for 5E may wane quickly if it's not enough like whatever style you like to play.

All this said, certainly the announcement of 5E should be an incentive for the DCC group to step up their pace if at all possible. The most recent "insider" version is looking really good and has nice layout. I'm not a game publisher, but to me it seems like the DCC game ought to be ready to hit the printers pretty soon, and from there it's just a matter of how quickly they can print and distribute.

WOTC playtest starts in Feb.

Playtests are available at DDXP in Jan 2011: "as a convention special this year, we will be offering show attendees a first-look at a draft of the new set of rules."

With the open play test starting for everyone else in Feb.

I would also like to add that I would be willing to pay more for a pre-order to included a pdf of the rules. I could print those out and be playing DCC today If I had it. So including it with a added cost or something with the hardback version would be GREAT. While I think PDF's instead of hardbacks have many issues,PDF's WITH hardbacks don't have as many.

I know this is a damn piracy issue with anything pdf and I understand if you guys can't do this.


However a pdf of the finished rules would get me and my group playing NOW.

Devil Swine wrote:So I felt the need to come here and post this and yell HURRY UP FOR GODS SAKE!.

Heard loud and clear. Consider the stank put.

And not that this dismisses your concerns, but D&D Next and the DCC RPG deliver very different play experiences. The great thing about 5e's design goal is that it wants to be every game to everyone. Hopefully this will re-energize the player base, bringing a new generation of players into the fold. And the great thing about the DCC RPG is that it is tailored to a very specific game experience: Appendix N Swords and Sorcery.

Recall back in the 80s and 90s when we all became saturated with the "D&D experience" and moved on to Warhammer, Cyberpunk, Vampire, etc. The DCC RPG is, intentionally, a flavor apart, built on a solid d20 engine, delivering a play experience at once fast, fresh and familiar.

And if it comes down to a fight, you can tell your players, "No more caves with orcs." Can 5e say that?

//H

Stank? I'm getting to proofread it right now (but instead I'm posting on the message boards, I know!). Trust me, it's not going to stank!

I'm actually very excited about 5E. What we've seen so far is "the tip of the iceberg." I think WotC will genuinely pull this one off and release a game that is not only a lot of fun to play but also a "great unifier" of the fan base. I can't wait for it to come out. It will be good for the industry, good for the fan base, and good for Goodman Games.

I think 5E will also be good for DCC RPG. DCC RPG is a game, but it is also an expression of a certain style of play. It's pre-D&D swords & sorcery; it's Appendix N; it's mustaches and bell bottoms. The DCC RPG adventure modules will most likely end up compatible (or closely compatible) with 5E, for reasons noted below. The adventure modules are as important, if not more important, than the core rules. Although most of the discussion so far has been around the rules (understandably), the DCC RPG lineup has a lot more modules than anything else. Really the support base is adventures. I love publishing and writing adventure modules, and that enthusiasm will come through loud and clear in DCC RPG (as you have no doubt seen so far with the 8 announced modules and more lining up behind them).

The primary element of "edition compatibility" when it comes to modules is monster stats. DCC RPG monster stats are very simple. They are built on the same foundation as Pathfinder, C&C, and all other D&D 3.5 descendants. And what is 5E aiming for? A rules set that unifies prior editions and, along the way, quite possibly unifies many of the 3.5 "rules cousins" as well.

What I suspect may happen is that players who appreciate a certain play style end up buying the DCC adventure modules for use in Pathfinder...or C&C...or 5E. And who knows what else. Even if they don't play DCC RPG.

Back to your original point, I can certainly appreciate the frustration with the delay! Me too, believe me. The delays are for good reasons: what you will eventually get will be a beautiful layout, thoroughly play tested rules, great art, and a document that has been edited and proofread by many sets of eyes. Send me your address and I'll send you a free poster to help tide you over until the book is out.

I hope your group engages in 5E, provides their feedback, and helps shape what could be a great game for all RPG fans. If your group wants to skip the DCC RPG rules for now, just steer them toward the adventure modules that will follow on the heels on the core rules. I suspect you'll be able to play those with a variety of systems. If they enjoy the style of play in the adventure modules, you may find you're all moving in the same direction after all.

Joseph, you summarized what I'd been thinking much better than I could of said it. So I'll just say I'm glad you are excited about it as well. I'm hoping that they will actively encourage publication of "conversion tools" so that we are encouraged to use adventures, bits of rules, etc. from various games together.

DCC RPG BETA has been the core rules set for my home campaign since it was released over 6 months ago, it was Swords & Wizardry for 6 months before that. When the full release comes out, I don't see it changing. What a lot of us Old-School Grognards do, now, is cut & paste rules from 37 years of gaming materials into the game we play today. DCC RPG continues this tradition and 5e/Ne will only add to this--what I like to call my D&D tool-box. I honestly see myself returning to the original abilities eventually, but I don't see myself giving up some of the stuff that makes DCC different, fresh and fun. 5e is clearly going for compatibility, not innovation. It's leveraging on ~40 years of rules, house-rules & hacks. This is awesome.

reverenddak wrote:When the full release comes out, I don't see it changing. What a lot of us Old-School Grognards do, now, is cut & paste rules from 37 years of gaming materials into the game we play today.

Preach it, Rev.

//H

I am also excited for 5e. I want it to be a success and end the annoying edition incompatibilities. oD&D and 1e materials really should be usable with the latest version of the game. I want D&D to be backwards-compatible. It would also be nice, if possible, to be able to use my PFRPG materials with 5e, not to mention the ton of 3.x DCC modules on my shelf that are begging to be run.

As for the delay. I find it disappointing, but understandable. I want the highest quality game that Goodman can produce. I would rather have it sooner than April, but I am willing to wait in order to get an improved game. That being said, I have no doubt it will be out before 5e finishes its beta test.

I have high hopes for 5e. That being said, I'm not sure what to expect from it exactly. I have put in some words here and there on the WoTC forums to try and nudge it in directions I might like--but grew a bit frustrated by the anti-old school rhetoric from some of the zealots there.

Yeah, the release time for DCC RPG is like the ultimate tease , but I just want a really solid product when it does come out. So waiting extra time to give you guys the space you need to make sure it has a maximum rock factor before it's released is okay by me.

I had hoped to get a regular BETA game going, but it hasn't happened yet. Fortunately it looks like it may finally be right around the corner as our rather large gaming club is splitting into three smaller groups. One might just be a DCC RPG game. I just got my free promo poster and it's going up on my classroom door tomorrow That should help a lot!

goodmangames wrote:what you will eventually get will be a beautiful layout, thoroughly play tested rules, great art, and a document that has been edited and proofread by many sets of eyes.

This.

If there's one thing that will stop me playing an otherwise good game, it's poor editing and proof reading (the one reason why I don't play C&C). That takes time.

By the time this is released I will have a Thur. evening gaming group (in addition to my Tue. evening group), so I'm very, very much looking forward to it.