Goodman Games

Edit: I've added a poll at finarvyn suggestion. Please choose what option you'd be most interested in. These hypothetical sets would include a set of all 14 dice needed for DCC to include a matching d7 and d30. Prices are unofficial estimates chosen by taking the current price per die for a set of dice, multiplying it for 14 dice, then adding $5. I would expect the actual price to be +/- $5 Shipping costs are not included, but assume they are reasonable. Here's a breakdown of the options:

• No I already have dice - This is if you have little to no interest in buying another set of dice.
• Only if the set is available in different colours - This is for those that are picky about their colour options. Please choose this if you have reservations about the colour Joseph might pick.
• Yes, if it's a renumbered* high impact set for ~$25 - A set of dice that used a d6, d10, and d14 numbered twice for d3, d5, and d7 respectively. They would be inked and tumble polished like a standard set of Chessex or Koplow dice.
• Yes, if it's a precision set of un-inked dice for ~$35 - Full set of uninked, colour coordinated GameScience dice.
• Yes, if it's a precision set of inked dice for ~$45 - Full set of inked, colour coordinated GamerScience dice.
• Yes, Yes, OMG YES! ($45+) - For those who are willing to spend more than $45 for a set and would likely buy a set regardless of the cost and style chosen.
• I might, but I'm not sure yet - For those who are undecided.

Original post:

Does Goodman Games have plans or currently working on finding a partner to produce a full dice set for DCC?

It would be nice to be able to get a full set of dice that are all the same colour and size. I already have players complaining about sourcing funky dice. The more difficult it is to get a full set of dice, the harder it is for me to get new players into the system. I know you don't have to have a full set, but I feel that conversion tables or rerolling dice takes away from the fun of the system, as do most of my players.

If you guys aren't planning something yet, what would it take to convince you?

Originally I was planning to do some "DCC RPG dice sets." And I still might. But two things. First, when the beta rules were released, the GameScience folks told me their sales on "funky dice" went through the roof. Gamers were able to find the dice without a special Goodman Games set, evidently. And secondly, I have since had a general uptick in comments along the lines of "I managed to find my dice okay." Here are some of the places you can order the "funky dice." Hopefully this lets you get the full sets that you need. And if not, I may still end up doing a set of official dice!

http://www.gamestation.net/
(full selection of funky dice)

http://www.koplowgames.com/
(a couple options -- d16 and d24 if I remember correctly)

http://chessex.com/
(3, 7, 14, 16, 24, and 30 siders)

Note: There are already a couple other, similar threads on these boards with lots of other ideas on how to generate the funky dice with regular dice sets, so you can "get by" without the funky dice. For example:
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 60&t=15068

It would still be fun to have a set of official DCC dice that:
1. were high quality plastic
2. were pre-inked
3. all matched each other
4. were in the same color scheme as the rulebook

I understand that this could be expensive, but it might make for a good poll question to see how many would buy them. Maybe some sort of pre-order where if a certain number were sold in advance they would be made and if not folks would get a refund. Just thinking out loud...

Well most of the complaints I've heard is getting a d7 and d30 that match the color scheme. One of my players also suggested a full set that used renumbered d6, d8, d10, and d14 for the irregular dice that are difficult to "roll" (maybe inked in a different color to easily spot the difference). Another one of my players thought a full set of crystal/cylinder style dice would be cool too.

All in all, it's not a matter of finding dice that work, it's a matter of finding a set of dice that players love. I have found that most players prefer to have a full themed dice set than pick out individual cool dice from my several pounds of random dice. Of the players I've had at my table, I have only seen the filler/casual players enjoying the non matching dice (outside of the occasional "lucky" die).

I have also had players come to games only to use a special set of their favorite dice (ie fudge). Had we been running a system where those dice wouldn't get their full use, they wouldn't have come. It's easy turning away bad players, it's difficult keeping the average and good players at the table. As a DM I will pull any and every little trick out of the book to keep players coming back to my table for regular sessions.

So here I am ^-^

Thac0 wrote:Well most of the complaints I've heard is getting a d7 and d30 that match the color scheme. One of my players also suggested a full set that used renumbered d6, d8, d10, and d14 for the irregular dice that are difficult to "roll" (maybe inked in a different color to easily spot the difference).

I've seen d6's numbered 1-3 twice, d10's numbered 1-5 twice, and have heard of d14's numbered 1-7 twice and think this is an awesome idea. (Acutually, my first "high impact" poly set had a d20 numbered 1-10 twice, which wasn't very useful since the only other d20's I had were from my cheap plastic OD&D dice sets.)

Thac0 wrote:Another one of my players thought a full set of crystal/cylinder style dice would be cool too.

My players mostly find them to be kind of creepy. Cool at first, but the novelty wore off in a hurry.

Thac0 wrote:All in all, it's not a matter of finding dice that work, it's a matter of finding a set of dice that players love. I have found that most players prefer to have a full themed dice set than pick out individual cool dice from my several pounds of random dice.

Agreed. Dice aren't just about generating numbers, but are about having cool stuff on the table. I have a set of black dice with white speckles for my scifi games, a set of neon "toxic" dice for my Metamorphosis Alpha and Gamma World games, and so on. Each game has it's main set, plus I have a jar of generic dice as needed.

I have dozens of dice sets but I want a special "DCC RPG" set of dice just because it would be cool.

By the way -- as to the poll, I'm not sure I found any of my own options there. I have a couple of sets of "precision" GameScience dice and don't like them much. I'm looking at something more like Koplow dice or some of the other nice dice companies, but I don't think it should go over $45. A set of decent polyhedral dice with d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, and d20 can be had for around $10, so I can't see that the remaining dice (d3, d7, d14, d16, d24, d30) should cost an additional $35. That just seems steep.

I'm with Finarvyn. I'd consider buying a set of dice with these qualities:

1. inked
2. opaque
3. precision
4. all 14 dice
5. whatever color(s)--I don't care if they are matching color or not.
6. $30 or less

I was unaware that anyone other than GameScience made "precision" sets of dice. To be clear, I'm calling the precision sets the ones with sharp edges that usually have an option to come uninked.

The option I have for ~$25 would be dice sets you would expect from a company like koplow or chessex. I had this labeled as "non precision" but maybe I should call it "high impact" instead. It wasn't to imply cheap dice, but rather the tumble polished kind with rounded edges. In fact I'll go rename that now.

However if there's other kinds of cheaper "precision" dice that aren't re-branded GameScience dice, I'd love to hear about them. GS charges a hefty premium to sell their dice that take fewer steps to make.

Geoffrey - GameScience's precision dice are about $2 a piece unmarked. They're a little under $3 each marked. So I'm not sure that an inked precision set of 14 dice for < $30 is possible.

Also of note, I don't have the option of a "high impact" irregular dice set (d3, d5, d7) because I believe GameScience has those designs patented and I doubt they'll grant someone like Koplow a license to make them at a reasonable cost, not to mention the cost of the molds.

I'll be happy to add other options that aren't covered by the above, so feel free to make a suggestion. Just keep in mind, I want to keep the range of options as low as possible. The more people we have that can agree to a general design, the more likely we are to convince them to make a set of dice. ^-^

I think we’re talking about the same dice.

Thac0 wrote:I was unaware that anyone other than GameScience made "precision" sets of dice. To be clear, I'm calling the precision sets the ones with sharp edges that usually have an option to come uninked.

That’s what I call them. I bought some “precision” dice hoping that they would be really similar to my old 1970’s TSR polyhedron dice set. They’re okay but not great dice, in my opinion.

Thac0 wrote:The option I have for ~$25 would be dice sets you would expect from a company like koplow or chessex. I had this labeled as "non precision" but maybe I should call it "high impact" instead. It wasn't to imply cheap dice, but rather the tumble polished kind with rounded edges. In fact I'll go rename that now.

This is the kind I like. I call them “high impact” because that’s they name they were given in the 1970’s (or early 1980’s) when they first came out.

Thac0 wrote:However if there's other kinds of cheaper "precision" dice that aren't re-branded GameScience dice, I'd love to hear about them. GS charges a hefty premium to sell their dice that take fewer steps to make.

None that I know of. Again, when I mention “cheap dice” I’m not talking about price so much as quality.

And at $3 a die, I agree that a $30 set seems impossible. Maybe a set with fewer than 14 dice?

Hi. I'd like a matching set please at a reasonable cost. The idea of having to piece together a crazy Frankenstein set from different manufacturers will i think put people off.

why not just selling "the odd dice", as a set? I guess most people have a 7-dice set already.

I already bought the dice i needed, but if there were like a set of
d3,d5,d7 (i like them as d6,d10,d14 numbered twice..)
d14,d16
d24,d30
that would be cool. It's just another 7-dice set, so it could cost around 12-15$ I guess.

A nice idea, and certainly cheaper than trying to sell the entire 14-dice set.

abk108 wrote:why not just selling "the odd dice", as a set? I guess most people have a 7-dice set already.

The idea is to have a full 14-dice matching set. If you only produce the 7 odd dice in one colour, then the chances of you having the matching dice are slim, so most people would have to buy the matching set of normal dice which defeats the purpose of making the odd dice set.

For those who don't care about having a matching set, then there's already several options available for them. So other than it being a "DCC Limited Edition" design, it offers little to those who already have the normal dice. And if they did make some awesome DCC design, wouldn't you prefer to spend a little more and have a full 14 dice set of DCC dicing awesomeness?

That being said, if a dice maker could be convinced to make the 7 odd dice set in several of their popular colours that match their standard 7 dice sets (I would say a bare minimum of 4 different colours, but closer to 8 would be better), then I could see that as a good solution as it gives people choices; however, given that it's a niche product, I think we're going to be hard pressed to convince them to make a set in more than one colour until the first run of DCC (and the limited edition dice set) sells out. You know, which it will. ^-^

regarding dice color: sure, everyone likes matching colors. But when it came to buying d3,d5, d16,d24,d30... I bought them all in different colors, and different size from my 7-dice sets.

That way I can tell in a sec that the d3 is the "red one w/white numbers", and i won't just pick one of my d6s, same thing for d5 (larger than other d10, white w/black n), d16 (black w/white n), d24(larger, green w/white n), d30 (larger, blue w/white n).
This was extremely helpful for new players that cannot even yet tell a d8 from a d10 at first glance.

I would say that having the 7 weird dice in all different colors (white, black, red, yellow, green, blue, violet(?) ) could mean :
there's no point in wanting them matching your dice sets
they're so easy to tell apart
don't know why, but randomly colored non-matching dice sets give me that feeling of old school, when there was no internet and you would buy dice singularly from the shopkeeper.

It seems strange not to sell the dice you need for your game. Why not just decide on a colour, then sell three sets...the standard 7, the additional 7 and the full 14 set?

abk108 wrote:regarding dice color: sure, everyone likes matching colors. But when it came to buying d3,d5, d16,d24,d30... I bought them all in different colors, and different size from my 7-dice sets.

That way I can tell in a sec that the d3 is the "red one w/white numbers", and i won't just pick one of my d6s, same thing for d5 (larger than other d10, white w/black n), d16 (black w/white n), d24(larger, green w/white n), d30 (larger, blue w/white n).
This was extremely helpful for new players that cannot even yet tell a d8 from a d10 at first glance.

Which is actually very useful, but there's already a way to do that. To my knowledge, outside of making your own set of dice (or commissioning someone to do it for you), there's currently no way to get a full matching set of dice.

And there's the other method of organization that uses themed dice to know which ones you need to take to a game instead of having to make sure you have 1 of each of the 14 dice. Very helpful when you play with different systems on a regular basis.

Again, not bashing your decision, just bringing up that there's not an option for those who like matching sets.

RevTurkey wrote:It seems strange not to sell the dice you need for your game. Why not just decide on a colour, then sell three sets...the standard 7, the additional 7 and the full 14 set?

(To my knowledge) Goodman Games doesn't actually make dice. In fact most RPG makers don't make their own dice. It's kinda like video games. Just because you make a game, doesn't mean you have to make the system it runs on. All the dice that you need to play DCC are already on the market. And most players already have enough dice at home to play DCC (granted they may have to use lookup tables).

To sell them, they would likely commission a dice maker to make them a set. To get a custom set of dice made to sell at a reasonable price, they would have to order a large number of them. I don't know how many they'd have to order, but I'm sure it will be in the 1000s. Now remember, all businesses are there to turn a profit. If Goodman Games doesn't sell most of the sets of dice, then they'll loose $money. The more they split their sets up, the harder it will be to sell all of the dice.

In your example of 7/7/14. There's a large risk that they will likely end up with extra sets of the 7 standard dice that they were unable to sell, which will hurt their bottom line. Then there's also the added cost of 3 different types of packaging & inventory, which will reduce the amount of $ they'll make selling the dice. So from a business standpoint, it's much less risky to pick one set of dice (either just the 7 odd dice, or the full 14 dice set) and sell that.

Even then, they have to be fairly certain they can sell most, if not all, of the sets they had custom ordered. The longer it takes for them to sell, the less money Goodman will make. (It costs $, time, and space to manage unsold inventory)

abk108 wrote:don't know why, but randomly colored non-matching dice sets give me that feeling of old school, when there was no internet and you would buy dice singularly from the shopkeeper.

I have a reason for this, but it's not really a random thing. In the 1970's, TSR sold sets of cheap plastic polyhedral dice in the following combinations:

• yellow d4
• orange d6 (some seem to have pink, I have lots of orange)
• green d8
• blue d12
• white d20

So the "random" look for dice sets wasn't an accident, historically, but was based on whatever TSR was selling. The idea of a "matching set" came a few years later. (Of course, now I own not only a bunch of matched sets but jars of random dice. Waaaay too many dice.)

I picked up newer hard-plastic dice in the same color scheme to "replace" my old sets (I keep my old sets safe and use the hard plastic ones instead) and when DCC came out I supplemented with a few fancy ones:

• I figured I didn't need a d3 and could "fake it" with a d6; likewise I didn't bother with a d5 and (see below) didn't bother with a d7, either.
• I bought two d14's in red and yellow because they didn't look like any I owned already
• I bought two green d16's; I picked green to "match" my d8's figuring I could remember they were 2x as many sides
• I bought two blue d24's; colors selected with similar reasoning to the d16's.
• I bought two white d30's; colors selected with similar reasoning to the d16's and d24's

So 4 new dice (d14, d16, d24, d30) seemed to make a "set" when combined with a regular polyhedral dice set. Minimal dice purchases while picking colors that I could remember.

Hi Thac0, i just want matching dice. I love what i have seen of the game and i love the idea of loads of funky dice to roll. I am a consumer not a designer so although i sympathise with the difficulty of sourcing the dice to sell...i should think it might be something for the designer to consider when creating the game. Anyway, the game isn't even out yet so let's see what Joseph eventually does. I think the dice should be made as easy as possible to buy otherwise only a very small minority of the rpg gaming community will bother to try this excellent looking game. As to colour, a mixed colour set is not a problem, even better actually...it helps you quickly tell one die from another at the table.

Thac0 wrote:To my knowledge, outside of making your own set of dice (or commissioning someone to do it for you), there's currently no way to get a full matching set of dice.

You can get something close through GameScience. They sell 12-dice sets, but most are uninked and transparent. (I prefer inked and opaque.) I bought two sets of "glow in the dark" dice from them in March so I could start my playtests and am still trying to ink them.

Thac0 wrote:Goodman Games doesn't actually make dice. <snip> To sell them, they would likely commission a dice maker to make them a set. To get a custom set of dice made to sell at a reasonable price, they would have to order a large number of them.

Yeah, I've looked into the "custom dice" route and it's not cheap. For most companies, the concept of "custom dice" is "we make six-siders and for $X per face you can design them." Most companies like Chessex and Koplow would allow you to build a set of poly dice by picking individual ones, but they either don't carry the unusual shapes or have very limited choices. I'm sure they don't see a big market in it.

So, as you suggested, Goodman Games would probably have to commission a large number of sets to be made special. That's why I had suggested a pre-order route where if they don't reach some target number then the project gets cancelled and money could be refunded. That would minimize the risk all-around.

RevTurkey wrote:it might be something for the designer to consider when creating the game...

And believe me there have been discussions and threads devoted to this topic. Jospeh likes the unusual dice shapes and equates the use of the new dice somewhat to the wonder of the experience that a gamer had the first time he encountered "regular" polyhedral dice in games instead of d6's.

1. The odd-shaped dice are out there. You just have to hunt a little. The lack of options can be frustrating, but I assume that as demand rises companies will boost their supply. IN general, if we wave money around someone will take it.

2. You can "fake it" for most dice types with regular poly dice. (Whole threads on this, too.) While I waited for my funky dice to arrive, I had to run a weekend of playtest with my traditional polyhedral dice set and things went fine. More fun with the cool shapes, but there is no reason why you need to have them.

Yes, one of the reasons i was drawn toward this game was because of the use of 'funky' dice i had never used before. They also allow for some new and creative ways to apply mechanics, i sent Joseph an idea about ways to use the new dice that he liked...so i am in as far as whether they are a good idea...of course they are, they are fun!

When i started gaming i was given the D&D basic set with the Erol Otis artwork. It blew my mind. I loved it. The artwork was inspirational (just like the DCCRPG previews we have seen). It had these crazy dice! Just rolling them was cool. No way...a 17 on a dice!

I forgot what i was going to say as a nostalgic wave of joy just sent me to la la land.

Anyway, i would like an old-school set of dice in all the different shapes, mixed colours and with a tiny d20 like the old sets used to come with. I would like my dice to slowly fall apart as the edges wear down because the plastic is naff. I would like a crayon to colour them in with.

That's what i would like.

Happy xmas everyone!

I vote for cheap inked dice sets that have only the new dice in them. One thing nobody at my table needs is more of the same dice we already have. Also I need as cheap of a entry point into DCC as I can get so as not to add fuel to the fire yet another rpg game to try out land that my players often complain about.

So, looking for the silver lining here, with the delay of the release perhaps a dice set might be more likely? ^-^

I'm not sure how many more votes we're going to manage. It looks like we have most of the DCC forum regulars. I guess the question is how biased is our sample compared to GG's target market. ^-^

And then there's the whole finding a partner to produce the dice, hopefully one who's willing to accept partial risk so GG doesn't have to fund the entire thing out of pocket. Hey, we all have dreams. =P

I voted "a precision set of inked dice for < $45" but with the caveat that they're OFFICIAL Goodman dice, each individually kissed by the Aerethian gods-blessed spittle of Joseph himself. (To make them roll in my favor every time, of course.)

And maybe a weird, retro, "Goodman-approved" funky lava-lamp or acid tripped-out blend of colors to reinforce that '70's vibe.