Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after November!

[Noodles]

As someone who pre-ordered DCC six months ago, I'm pleased that doing it right is the highest priority. As for the closed beta offending people, get over it. All that matters in the end is a quality product. Goodman Games has a pretty impressive track record of producing excellent material. We don't 'deserve' to be shown every development detail along the way to release. I for one saw enough I liked from the first beta release that I have no doubts that the finished product will be great.

[JediOre]

Hi Noodles,

I've not seen you before. Welcome to the forums.

I like the cut of your jib!

[geordie racer]

As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.

FFS, investment is about more than money, jmucchiello has been posting constructive ideas on this board all year. I disagree with some of what he's written but he's a damn sight more entitled to have a little moan than someone who hasn't contributed, because it's out of frustration rather than bitchiness.

If you haven't got a few niggling worries you haven't played the damn Beta. Joseph seems to be dealing with the problems, so things will be cool. But it's people like jmucchiello who've been around to point out the dodgy bits along the journey, and helped it's development.

[Ogrepuppy]

Mind you--I'm not disappointed about the delay of the finished product.

I'm 100% behind the idea of this RPG being the BEST RPG it can be, so playtest the hell out of it! (I just wish I was one of the playtesters!)

[abk108]

As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.

FFS, investment is about more than money, jmucchiello has been posting constructive ideas on this board all year. I disagree with some of what he's written but he's a damn sight more entitled to have a little moan than someone who hasn't contributed, because it's out of frustration rather than bitchiness.

If you haven't got a few niggling worries you haven't played the damn Beta. Joseph seems to be dealing with the problems, so things will be cool. But it's people like jmucchiello who've been around to point out the dodgy bits along the journey, and helped it's development.

Amen. +d30.

[smathis]

As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.

Really?

I don't know where to start with this one.

Welcome to the forums.

I'm trying hard to be nice because we just met.

[Harley Stroh]

Heh. I don't think we've ever had to lock a thread here before, so don't force me to start googling admin commands.

I'll ask everyone to express themselves politely and respectfully. There are good reasons to be disappointed about the delay, and there are also good reasons for the delay. Both are legitimate points of view which you are welcome to share. Start cutting on one another and our small community will become smaller, which doesn't really serve anyone.

Thanks guys,
//H

[romprecentor]

I also don't mind pushing back the date to get it right especially considering GG excellent track record on this in the past. I do think it is important to give us a reason to check the boards however. If a second Beta is not coming perhaps some insights to some of the "Fixes" could be shared?

I am set to start running the Beta with my group in 2 weeks. Now I am afraid I could loose their interest if the Beta has too many problems. This same group is coming out of a Dragon Age game bitter about lack of support and delayed release dates so I am worried about my footing.

We all lovde the look of the Beta and the concept. The artwork in it impressed and inspired me and I think was an excellent decision to include. I have high hopes for DCC.

[Noodles]

I'll concede that typing 'get over it' could be seen as inflammatory, which wasn't my goal. My intent was just to back up Joseph on his reasons for not making public his word document of the changes, not to offend.

As for having played the beta, I ran both parts of the free rpg day for a group of friends. It was a blast. Sure there are things that could be improved, but there were already hundreds of posts covering any concerns I had.

Once again, sorry to offend.

[Geoffrey]

I do think it is important to give us a reason to check the boards however.

How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.

[goodmangames]

How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.

Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.

There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!

In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.

Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.

[Ducaster]

Re reading "Three Hearts and Three Lions" right now boss. Between coughing my lungs up ill that is..

Can't get more Appendix N than that. (He says opening a big family sized can of worms)

[Ogrepuppy]

(He says opening a big family sized can of worms)

Mmmmm, worms. ::drool::

Pass me one!

[finarvyn]

I am set to start running the Beta with my group in 2 weeks. Now I am afraid I could loose their interest if the Beta has too many problems.

I've been playing the Beta since March or so and I think that it plays just fine. Most of the "fixes" are little tweaks and improvements, things that will be a little different later on when the real thing is published, but nothing that makes the Beta unplayable or broken in my opinion.

A couple of suggestions:
1) look for the threads on the Cleric and Thief, since they were revised by Joseph and posted. Those changes are worth making in your campaign.
2) keep level advancement a little slow, since the Beta version doesn't have the full range of spells yet.
3) don't sweat the small stuff. Go for the "big picture" rules and philosophy and just play. I find that I can tweak a C&C module to fit DCC pretty quickly and most 3E modules (such as Goodman's DCC line) can be done without too much hassle. Just take the main ideas and go with it.

My "Fellowship of Foragers" has had a great time with the game so far and I think your group will also. Give the Beta a shot and report back!

[MrHemlocks]

How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.

Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.

There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!

In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.

Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.

As for me I am reading two books, as long as playing some HackMaster Basic, while waiting DCC release. These are both really good books and would highly advice them to those that enjoy old school fantasy and Lovecraft horror (Call of Cthulhu).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books

[MrHemlocks]

Smathis,

Heard loud and clear. We're considering all ideas and suggestions, regardless of the source. There is not a privileged set of personalities.

On the forums it is easy to feel like you are writing into a void. I'd ask folks to have faith that, while many ideas might not receive a formal response, we are working our way through the feedback, throwing it into the Appendix Nd20 hopper and seeing what comes out the far side.

(The one caveat I'd add is that I do give some more attention to suggestions/issues that arise out of actual playtests and playtest reports. I'm only speaking for myself, as clearly a lot of changes have been made to the core book that originated with people reading the book and calling out problems.)

Will every idea get used? Unfortunately, no. The DCC RPG has a very clear vision of what it is - and isn't - to be. Wound points, variant armor rules, etc. might end up in third party releases, or even in an annual, but they won't make the core. Not that they aren't excellent suggestions, but simply because they aren't in the core vision of the DCC line.

However, that shouldn't stop people from making radical suggestions. We were dead set on levels 1- 5 and you saw where that went. Same with thief abilities. And there are many more refinements and changes to come.

//H

Is there a chance we might see some new campaign maps released along with the release of DCC? Or include parts of the maps (mini-maps) with the DCC rulebook and adventures? Like what was done in The Keep on the Borderlands? It was a mini campaign with enough maps and adventure for players & DM for many game settings. Hackmaster did the same thing with their Frandor's Keep mini-campaign. It is almost a retro-clone of The Keep on the Borderlands.

Regional map in Frandor's Keep:
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/ ... M_info.pdf

Febuary is a long way off and 'something' like this would be great!

[Harley Stroh]

Regional map in Frandor's Keep:
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/ ... M_info.pdf

Wow! That topo map is intense ...

//H

[abk108]

How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.

Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.

There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!

In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.

Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.

As for me I am reading two books, as long as playing some HackMaster Basic, while waiting DCC release. These are both really good books and would highly advice them to those that enjoy old school fantasy and Lovecraft horror (Call of Cthulhu).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books

I'm not reading lately... i've been to busy writing I had this couple of ideas for RPGs so i decided to start putting them out and for the public... you know, just to develop some "designer" muscles, so one day maybe, i'll be as good as Joseph and his team
Beside the Arcanix system to which I have a link in my signature, i'm almost done writing a sci-fi game which I'm VERY excited about!
Why read, when you can write!?

[Stainless]

I've been reading the Age of Treason setting book from Mongoose for their Legend system. Non gaming, I've been reading The New Traditional Woodworker;

http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Traditional ... 075&sr=8-1

Great book if you love woodworking hand tools like me

[reverenddak]

Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.

Hey, STAY ON TOPIC!!! (heh,... I'm kidding.)

I'm sad that the game is being postponed, as I'm really anxious for the complete game. My gaming group has LOVED the Beta as written. Maybe because it just happens to suit my style as a DM, but it could be my enthusiasm to play it that translates into an enthusiastic GM, therefore making DCC seem like a better game. As any good GM can make 4e awesome for even the most hardcore Story-indierpg-gamer (and they exist.)

I appreciate the updated Beta classes, I'm grateful for the Beta in general. No way should anyone feel entitled to pre-release materials, even if you pre-purchase. It's obvious, and should go without saying, that such a perk will make people happy, but no way should it be expected. That sense of entitlement is really just... some BS false sense of entitlement.

Everyone wants this game to be awesome, but some seem to want Joe Goodman to write them their perfect game. The only person the game is going to be perfect for is Mr. Goodman, that's a good thing. If I wanted my perfect game, I'll write it myself. I don't have the time, patience or skill to do that so I'm constantly seeking out that game that's close. DCC is pretty f-ing close, even as a Beta. I like some of the new changes, I don't like others. But so far the "problems" are easy enough for me to change. As long as the principles of the game are ones that work for me, it will be the game for me. I'm happy so far, and I'm willing to be patient for the complete game.

on that note, yes, MORE UPDATES if you don't mind!

[finarvyn]

I'm sad that the game is being postponed, as I'm really anxious for the complete game. My gaming group has LOVED the Beta as written. Maybe because it just happens to suit my style as a DM, but it could be my enthusiasm to play it that translates into an enthusiastic GM, therefore making DCC seem like a better game.

And everything I've seen would indicate that your group will still love the game when it comes out. Keep in mind that any tweaks that occur between now and February won't change the basic philosophy or design bullet-points that Joseph outlined in the early "what it is and what it isn't" design blog back in January.
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... =60&t=7154

And I may be guilty of the same "it just happens to suit my style as a DM" thing. My group has had a blast with DCC.

[Ogrepuppy]

Y'know, even after all the brouhaha of the above posts....


...I STILL CAN'T WAIT.

I was browsing these boards and reading comments and just basking in the excitement and pleasure people are having with the (occasionally-wonky) Beta rules, reading the ideas being tossed around and the kooky mini-adventures people are writing and running.

This is gonna be an amazing RPG.

[Abchiptop]

I've been tracking down terrible zombie themed rpgs to see how low the bar is set In terms of quality and playability. And apparently, it's really low