Goodman Games

Ok, I am a statistician by profession, and what Zocchi says seems to have very little to do with statistical issues. The only requirement for a die to be balanced, is that the mass is uniformly distributed over all its faces; this is the physical equivalent of the mathematical concept of distribution of probabilistic mass. Whether the faces are rounded, flat, pointed etc. has absolutely no bearing on the final distribution of values, as long as all the faces behave exactly the same. A few dice rolls don't prove absolutely nothing. Is there a study somewhere in which a true statistical assessment of the efficacy of these dice is reported? By which I mean an experiment conducted in controlled conditions, dice rolled a few thousand times at least, and then the outcomes compared with the theoretical uniform distribution(s) (by a Kolmogorov test, for example.)
There is no way I am going to shell 30$ only because Zocchi says his dice are better than the others' . Quite honestly, this may be the only factor which will make me not buy the DCC rpg.

hi everyone. I bought at theDiceShopOnline.com some of the dice i needed : i won't bother with the perfect randomness of gamestation dice.
I bought a d3 (d6 numbered 123 twice), a d5 (d10 numbered 12345 twice), a d16 (looks pretty as hell, my favourite die!) which i use also as d14, d24 and d30.
They were about 10$, including shipping to Italy. I didn't have to buy dice i already have dozens of, i could have them in different colors so it's easier to recognize them (some new players have trouble telling the d24 from the d30 for example), and i'm perfectly happy.

Sure, the d24 and the d30 are a bit too rounded maybe, but who cares, they look so old-school, with their plain color that looks as if it came out of a printer, and their simple white numbers!

abk108 wrote:hi everyone. I bought at theDiceShopOnline.com some of the dice i needed : i won't bother with the perfect randomness of gamestation dice.
I bought a d3 (d6 numbered 123 twice), a d5 (d10 numbered 12345 twice), a d16 (looks pretty as hell, my favourite die!) which i use also as d14, d24 and d30.
They were about 10$, including shipping to Italy. I didn't have to buy dice i already have dozens of, i could have them in different colors so it's easier to recognize them (some new players have trouble telling the d24 from the d30 for example), and i'm perfectly happy.

Sure, the d24 and the d30 are a bit too rounded maybe, but who cares, they look so old-school, with their plain color that looks as if it came out of a printer, and their simple white numbers!

Yeah that's a good idea, buying the next higher die type and reject-sampling the results. You could dispense with d3 and d5, using d4 and d6.
d16 fills the role of d14, too.
and d30 fills the role of d24.

rabindranath72 wrote: Yeah that's a good idea, buying the next higher die type and reject-sampling the results. You could dispense with d3 and d5, using d4 and d6.
d16 fills the role of d14, too.
and d30 fills the role of d24.

I decided to buy the d3 and d5 because their use is a lot more frequent than that of a d14 or example...
d24 and d30, i wanted to have one of those

Well I picked up a handful of these Zocchi/non-standard dice at Gen Con this weekend. So now I have atleast one of every die type used by this game (plus a couple six-sided d2s just for the heck of it). Now I just need the final book.

:waiting patiently:

Just got my precision dice and I'm underwhelmed. The giant chunks of excess plastic are a bit much. I don't know how these can be considered precision dice. I'm sorry but for $35 bucks I don't want to spend a bunch of time sanding my dice so they can look like crap . The precision made dice used on craps tables don't look like this. Maybe they should have named them Uniquely Unbalanced Dice.

DCCfan wrote:The precision made dice used on craps tables don't look like this. Maybe they should have named them Uniquely Unbalanced Dice.

Those d6 gambling precision dice cost $6 and up, each!

I ordered a set of GameScience dice and am very happy with them. I understand the process GameScience uses to make the dice and will take a few "burs" on my dice that need filing in order to get a quality precision die.

Here is a blurb from an E-bay seller about GameScience (It's from g2 Collectibles and Hobbies) :

About Gamescience Dice

One of our strongest core values at g2 is open, straight-forward honesty and the following paragraphs are something we want you to know before ordering Gamescience dice. Your satisfaction and our reputation rely on you understanding what you are ordering. We would very much appreciate you taking the time to read this before placing an order.

These dice are the most precise RPG dice you can add to your collection. Gamescience states that “no company makes polyhedral dice closer to casino specifications” (casino dice must be exact to a tolerance of .005” - Gamescience dice have been measured with a side to side variation of .002” to .006”). In short, these are the dice you want if you demand the fairest, most impartial role available to gamers. The precision edge both keep these dice truly random since there is no unfairness introduced from curvature variation and also allows for better stopping power so the dice come to a halt faster than other dice.

So what’s the trade-off for this precision? Well Gamescience dice are not polished like other manufacturers dice. This gives them a precision edge, but also very commonly leaves behind mold marks ranging from blemishes and bumps where the mold was connected to scratches on the surface of the die. Testing has shown that these marks do not alter the precision of the dice significantly (or at least less significantly than polishing the edges down and the mold marks off). The marks do however alter the appearance. Appearance and precision are possible of course, but understand that the average pair of casino grade D6s start at $30 and can be even more. Thus, Gamescience dice exist, affordable precision dice for gamers.

In addition, Gamescience dice are hand inked so they do not have fancy painted numbers like other companies. This is actually a positive thing since the dice can be re-inked again and again with nothing more than an ultra-fine marker if the numbers fade.

If you are familiar with Gamescience dice then you already know about the mold markings and hand inking and you know that over time your Gamescience dice grow on you, appearance and precision both. If you are new to Gamescience dice, then we’d say start with one set and see what you think. Just understand up front that we are telling you clearly that these dice will look nothing like the polished dice you are used to seeing. Give them a chance though and we think you’ll find them worth it. As the saying goes, never judge something by its outside appearance.

We here at g2 actually have both polished dice and Gamescience dice in our personal collections. And we find that both kinds work just fine for gaming. Other dice are not necessarily poor really, it’s just that Gamescience dice are the best for a truly impartial roll (for instance our other favorite, Koplow, had a wider variation of .008” to .032” when tested - not as good as Gamescience dice, but better than many other polished dice).

So the decision is yours, if precision matters to you then Gamescience dice are for you. If appearance matters more, then you should probably stick to the polished dice offered by other manufacturers - we’d recommend Koplow in this case since these are some of the best polished dice available. If you are like us, you’ll have some of both in your collection. Please remember we told you right up front to be ready for that unpolished look.

I think Joseph Goodman should probably post something like this so folks know what they are getting when they buy GameScience dice. If one has not seem them before, it can be a rude shock to see the blemishes that other dice makers remove.

JediOre wrote:Those d6 gambling precision dice cost $6 and up, each!

Casino dice are also machined rather than molded; they're cut from blocks with precise machinery, not popped out of molds on sprues like gaming dice (including GameScience dice). The casino dice pips are then filled with plastic of the exact same density as the plastic used for the dice, perfectly flush, so there's no imbalance on any side at all. I love 'em.

JediOre wrote:I think Joseph Goodman should probably post something like this so folks know what they are getting when they buy GameScience dice. If one has not seem them before, it can be a rude shock to see the blemishes that other dice makers remove.

Yep, might be a good idea if Goodman is going the evangelical route on promoting Zocchi dice. To be fair though, I've heard a few complaints lately from folks buying GS dice for the first time about the size of the excess plastic on their dice, so I've asked to see some photos just in case standards of manufacture have dropped or something. It might be something as simple as someone being a trifle too lazy or careless in cutting the dice from the sprue.

Colin

RAD Colin wrote:It might be something as simple as someone being a trifle too lazy or careless in cutting the dice from the sprue.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

If you are familiar with Gamescience dice then you already know about the mold markings and hand inking and you know that over time your Gamescience dice grow on you, appearance and precision both. If you are new to Gamescience dice, then we’d say start with one set and see what you think. Just understand up front that we are telling you clearly that these dice will look nothing like the polished dice you are used to seeing. Give them a chance though and we think you’ll find them worth it. As the saying goes, never judge something by its outside appearance.

I've been messing around with these since I got them and they have grown on me. I'm still not sure how precise they will be after the trimming and sanding or paying $35 for them. However they do glow in the dark so I guess I could play in low light to hide these ugly shameful dice from the rest of the group .

I remember the first set of dice I purchased as a stand alone buy, as opposed to the dice sets that came in my D&D Basic set (the one with the red dragon looking at the wizard and the fighter) and my Expert set, were GameScience dice. I bought a translucent blue set and a crystal set. That must have been around 1982.

They are still my favorite set of dice and have held up well over the 30-odd years they have been rolled. I do recall using my parents fingernail clippers on my blue 8-sided.

The ironic thing is the set of GameScience dice I purchased last week, the first set of precision dice since the '80s, has a similar "bump" on the 8-sided! I guess I'll have to get out the fingernail clippers again!

Fingernail clippers! Now there's something I've not heard used before!

Colin

That's why I waited to Gen Con to get my Zocchi dice. I wanted to see and hold them before I bought.

Ive gotten hundreds of dice. Ive never seen any with plastic burs. For $35 ?? Thats unacceptable.

Got mine and it looks way more plastic flashing/spurs whatever than should be acceptable. I mean come on if a dice has that big a spur on it then how is it going to role fair and if I cut it off I still have a crappy dice. They should trim them at least for the cost. I mean dice are not that much to make even if it is "perfect dice" which these are not.

Sad face!

Maybe they plan on selling a set of precision tools for trimming and sanding your precision dice for the low low price of $19.95. Hurry while supplies last!

Precision Tools = (Nail Clippers and Sand Paper) Get them now for only $19.99 and we will throw in a second set absolutely free! (Shipping and Handling of $9.99 per set does apply!)

Hurry limited time, only available to the next 50 callers!!

Wow, I'm sorry I mentioned the ol' nail clipper tale.

For the record, I enjoy my GameScience dice and really don't have any real complaints.

JediOre wrote:Wow, I'm sorry I mentioned the ol' nail clipper tale.

For the record, I enjoy my GameScience dice and really don't have any real complaints.

Don't be sorry. I hadn't even considered nail clippers. It's a great idea.

Some posters just get carried away a little.

JediOre wrote:Wow, I'm sorry I mentioned the ol' nail clipper tale.

For the record, I enjoy my GameScience dice and really don't have any real complaints.

Sorry, I was just trying to be funny. I did not mean to offend anyone.

DCCfan wrote:I did not mean to offend anyone.

DCCfan, I wasn't offended. Just worried that a funny dice story from my past is becoming the poster child for a mob-in-the-making!