Goodman Games

Hi, I just finished running a 0-level, funnel adventure. Well, you can find a detailed REPORT on how the game played here http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... 69&t=15483

What happened is that everyone was happy and satisfied with the game and they all had a great time with the funnel. Well, all except one guy, that lost his favourite character (16 STR, called Barbatus, that fought valiantly throughout the dungeon..) just before the final confrontation with the evil sorcerer. He had just received a new character, which had similar abilities (like 15 STR), from those they rescued from the prisons, so he still managed to kill the sorcerer and fulfill the mission. But he somehow resented the fact that his favourite Barbatus had been killed... I could feel he was sad, but I think that I should stay impartial and leave things as they are.

Any advice? I'd like that player to get attached to his surviving character, and i wonder if there is any "best way" of doing that

Unless he's a power gamer who is attached to good stats, I can't see how any one character would have become so favorite so quickly. At least, not to the extreme that you seem to be telling us about. It's not like he played the character for a few weeks and then it died. We're talking about one session.

The whole point of the character funnel is that sometimes the best character doesn't make it. Perhaps he can't enjoy randomness in his character creation.

finarvyn wrote:Unless he's a power gamer who is attached to good stats, I can't see how any one character would have become so favorite so quickly. At least, not to the extreme that you seem to be telling us about. It's not like he played the character for a few weeks and then it died. We're talking about one session.

All it takes is one good something (fight, character interaction, even die roll) to endear someone to a character. One of my most frequently recurring characters started as a pre-gen for a one-shot game. He was made by someone else, was a class I did not like to play, was a race I did not like to play, but he kicked so much butt in one battle (due entirely to good luck with the dice) that I still play him nearly 15 years later. And while those 15 years have greatly expanded on the character, whenever I think of him my first thoughts return to that very first battle where Strovil the Wizard killed 8 goblins by dual-wielding his staff at a penalty as his companions lied unconscious on the cave floor.

I think my whole group would have been upset if Strovil died.

finarvyn wrote:Unless he's a power gamer who is attached to good stats, I can't see how any one character would have become so favorite so quickly. At least, not to the extreme that you seem to be telling us about. It's not like he played the character for a few weeks and then it died. We're talking about one session.

Well the funnel lasted 2 sessions...which took place on two consecutive wednesdays...
Probably it was because he had just challenged the Eye of Fate (a magic circle that requires a DC 11 Will Save: pass, get +1 to random stat; fail, petrification... ), with his favourite character, after having already been lucky a first time and getting a +1 Luck. He passed again and got +1 to STR!! He was extremely happy about that, but in the next room he lost his character, before even getting to apply that +2 STR bonus to any roll

finarvyn wrote:The whole point of the character funnel is that sometimes the best character doesn't make it. Perhaps he can't enjoy randomness in his character creation.

i don't think it was about being a pp, but more about being "used" to have characters that are way better than the standard peasant. Here characters ARE JUST standard peasants (and that's SO cool ).

Have the dead PC become a town legend with a grave marker & all. As the game progresses, find ways to return the PCs to their home town and be sure to note the grave is kept up.

Then, later, you could have the grave dug up by followers of a nasty cult, giving them a great adventure, hunting for the bones of the town hero.

Just a thought.

JediOre wrote:Have the dead PC become a town legend with a grave marker & all. As the game progresses, find ways to return the PCs to their home town and be sure to note the grave is kept up.

Then, later, you could have the grave dug up by followers of a nasty cult, giving them a great adventure, hunting for the bones of the town hero.

Just a thought.

Good thought!

This is good advice, IMO. This situation is unavoidable for some groups, IMO. The important thing is to try to keep the player focused on what happened and why and to acknowledge his unhappiness over the situation. Don't let it get misdirected at you or the game.

The character died. That happens.

Too often I've seen this kind of thing screw up a game because the disgruntled player wants some sort of reparation or assurance that it won't happen again. IMO, this is why the whole "roll 4d6 for stats" thing started coming up. And D&D's been on a steady diet of power-creep ever since.

smathis wrote:

JediOre wrote:Have the dead PC become a town legend with a grave marker & all. As the game progresses, find ways to return the PCs to their home town and be sure to note the grave is kept up.

Then, later, you could have the grave dug up by followers of a nasty cult, giving them a great adventure, hunting for the bones of the town hero.

Just a thought.

Good thought!

This is good advice, IMO. This situation is unavoidable for some groups, IMO. The important thing is to try to keep the player focused on what happened and why and to acknowledge his unhappiness over the situation. Don't let it get misdirected at you or the game.

The character died. That happens.

Too often I've seen this kind of thing screw up a game because the disgruntled player wants some sort of reparation or assurance that it won't happen again. IMO, this is why the whole "roll 4d6 for stats" thing started coming up. And D&D's been on a steady diet of power-creep ever since.

That is a good advice but I was thinking I should try to make him "forget" his beloved (and dead) PC, and try to have the new PC accomplish something important and become the town hero/leader of the party. Maybe this way even the new character will be loved.

I know what you're saying, with that "sh*t happens" attitude That's the way i run this game... at level 0, I rolled every roll publicly so they could see that nothing was made on purpose. The only thing that maybe screwed that reciprocal trust was that the last trap-room allowed no save of ay kind. It just outright killed the characters in dramatic, cinematic way. It has been extremely cool. The players listened without breathing the 8 or so lines of descriptions of that ominous death. That was cool also because they thought they had just finished the adventure, taking th black scepter. It was a fake, a trap, and they all died like .. curiosity killed the cat.

abk108 wrote:That's the way i run this game... at level 0, I rolled every roll publicly so they could see that nothing was made on purpose.

That's a good rule of thumb. Unless it's something like a Stealth check or a Finding Traps check that I feel would benefit from being rolled secretly, I ALWAYS roll in the open. All games, all the time. I never roll a combat roll behind a screen. Nor do I roll damage behind the screen.

abk108 wrote:The only thing that maybe screwed that reciprocal trust was that the last trap-room allowed no save of ay kind. It just outright killed the characters in dramatic, cinematic way. It has been extremely cool. The players listened without breathing the 8 or so lines of descriptions of that ominous death. That was cool also because they thought they had just finished the adventure, taking the black scepter. It was a fake, a trap, and they all died like .. curiosity killed the cat.

Whenever I have a straight-up death trap in an adventure, I always give it a "fair-warning". In the case of the false scepter, I might've seeded a rumor in the dungeon or in the legends about the dungeon that could point out the truth of the false scepter. It can be frustrating for a player to get hit by death out of nowhere. But with the proper foreshadowing, they have no one to blame but themselves. Despite the nostalgic macho undercurrent of the old-school thing, most of them would prefer the latter to the former.

smathis wrote:Whenever I have a straight-up death trap in an adventure, I always give it a "fair-warning". In the case of the false scepter, I might've seeded a rumor in the dungeon or in the legends about the dungeon that could point out the truth of the false scepter. It can be frustrating for a player to get hit by death out of nowhere. But with the proper foreshadowing, they have no one to blame but themselves. Despite the nostalgic macho undercurrent of the old-school thing, most of them would prefer the latter to the former.

I see... but this was a straight-up death trap in a 0-level adventure, not just some adventure where each player has his own unique character that he created and nurtured for quite some time already. I couldn't give any knowledge of that scepter because every dungeon defense mechanism had been crafted only just before the death of the mage living there. But what i did was clearly describe the room in which the false scepter was found: 15x15 ft square room, pentagram on the pavement, scepter on a stand, CRACKED HUMAN BONES EVERYWHERE, DRIED UP BLOODSTAINS ON THE STAND.... i mean if i were a player it would strike me as "it's too good to be true" to find the main treasure in the dungeon so easily that i could just grab it and leave...

abk108 wrote:... the room in which the false scepter was found: 15x15 ft square room, pentagram on the pavement, scepter on a stand, CRACKED HUMAN BONES EVERYWHERE, DRIED UP BLOODSTAINS ON THE STAND....

I'm going to use a lasso to try to snare the scepter. *rolls a die*

GnomeBoy wrote:

abk108 wrote:... the room in which the false scepter was found: 15x15 ft square room, pentagram on the pavement, scepter on a stand, CRACKED HUMAN BONES EVERYWHERE, DRIED UP BLOODSTAINS ON THE STAND....

I'm going to use a lasso to try to snare the scepter. *rolls a die*

That would've been a nice attempt! A good one (or trying to knock it down with a pebble)... But the fake scepter was protected by a force field (invisible) that prevented anyone from removing it. Knocking the stand down won't work either as it will just float where it was.

abk108 wrote:That would've been a nice attempt! A good one (or trying to knock it down with a pebble)... But the fake scepter was protected by a force field (invisible) that prevented anyone from removing it. Knocking the stand down won't work either as it will just float where it was.

...Now where did I put that anti-magic lasso...?

GnomeBoy wrote:...Now where did I put that anti-magic lasso...?

You loaned it to Wonder Woman!

I'm not sure how I would have approached that death trap as a PC. Without access to magic, I'd be throwing stones about the room. GnomeBoy's idea is a good one. I think, after the players had tried to "feel out" the room from the doorway, we would probably send in one or two PCs to see what happened. No need to press for a T.P.K.!

JediOre wrote:

GnomeBoy wrote:...Now where did I put that anti-magic lasso...?

You loaned it to Wonder Woman!

I'm not sure how I would have approached that death trap as a PC. Without access to magic, I'd be throwing stones about the room. GnomeBoy's idea is a good one. I think, after the players had tried to "feel out" the room from the doorway, we would probably send in one or two PCs to see what happened. No need to press for a T.P.K.!

I would've expect only one or two pcs to venture through the portal. No need for risking more than a few lives going through an unknown mystic gate I would've also expected those PCs to see the room then go back and talk to the others first (going back through drained 2 ability points, at random..)
If they felt the room was "too good to be true" they could just leave it, and focus on those weird 4 pillars in the main room!

abk108 wrote:I see... but this was a straight-up death trap in a 0-level adventure, not just some adventure where each player has his own unique character that he created and nurtured for quite some time already. I couldn't give any knowledge of that scepter because every dungeon defense mechanism had been crafted only just before the death of the mage living there. But what i did was clearly describe the room in which the false scepter was found: 15x15 ft square room, pentagram on the pavement, scepter on a stand, CRACKED HUMAN BONES EVERYWHERE, DRIED UP BLOODSTAINS ON THE STAND.... i mean if i were a player it would strike me as "it's too good to be true" to find the main treasure in the dungeon so easily that i could just grab it and leave...

All the stuff you capitalized I would qualify as fair warning. As well as the "too good to be true" factor.

Ask him, 'would Barbatus the Barbarian pout over a dead PC'? I think not.

He died in battle, gloriously. As it should be.

tithian wrote:Ask him, 'would Barbatus the Barbarian pout over a dead PC'? I think not.

No, he'd just hammer the DM's skull to pulp in a single swing without a thought.

jmucchiello wrote:

tithian wrote:Ask him, 'would Barbatus the Barbarian pout over a dead PC'? I think not.

No, he'd just hammer the DM's skull to pulp in a single swing without a thought.

+d3