Goodman Games

How could the DCC rpg handle travelling to other planes ?

- purely as a means to an end (do the ritual or use the portal/object/drug - and you're there) with the focus immediately shifting to the destination ?

- or as a mini-game in itself (I feel a chart coming on) ?

How have you handled it in other games you've played ?

I don't think DCC needs rules for this. Planar travel is entirely in the domain of the DM, I think.

Not that they couldn't be good... but I could probably run 20 campaigns and never read the rules on Planar Travel.

If space in the rules is at a premium it should stick with the things that will happen routinely not wondrous/super rare things. If a module called for planar travel I'm sure the specifics would be covered.

Give me the spell for it, that's all. I think it's usually not the way how you open a gateway to another world is the interesting part, but where it leads.

kataskicana wrote:Not that they couldn't be good... but I could probably run 20 campaigns and never read the rules on Planar Travel.

If space in the rules is at a premium it should stick with the things that will happen routinely not wondrous/super rare things. If a module called for planar travel I'm sure the specifics would be covered.

I agree here. If the goal is indeed to have a thin core rulebook, neat extras should be pushed off to a later supplement or magazine article.

Planar travel can be cool, but not in the main rulebook.

finarvyn wrote:I agree here. If the goal is indeed to have a thin core rulebook, neat extras should be pushed off to a later supplement or magazine article.

Planar travel can be cool, but not in the main rulebook.

I think Planar Travel falls under the umbrella of things that happen at higher levels of play that Joseph wanted to put in a supplement but hadn't gotten a handle on yet.

And I'm cool with it being in an Annual or something. It doesn't come up often for me in my games.

kataskicana wrote:Not that they couldn't be good... but I could probably run 20 campaigns and never read the rules on Planar Travel.

I've gone my whole life without reading the stuff about planes in the old AD&D rulebook. Like psionics, I don't need or want this stuff.

smathis wrote:

finarvyn wrote:I agree here. If the goal is indeed to have a thin core rulebook, neat extras should be pushed off to a later supplement or magazine article.

Planar travel can be cool, but not in the main rulebook.

I think Planar Travel falls under the umbrella of things that happen at higher levels of play that Joseph wanted to put in a supplement but hadn't gotten a handle on yet.

That's my understanding too. I'm working on a module that involves travel between planes but is very adventure specific. Given the response here maybe I should pitch it elsewhere

geordie racer wrote:That's my understanding too. I'm working on a module that involves travel between planes but is very adventure specific. Given the response here maybe I should pitch it elsewhere

No reason you couldn't do a module/adventure that features planar travel for DCC. All IMO, of course. But you could do it as plot-device style rituals or locations of power.

We know that Planar Travel as an option in DCC probably isn't coming up until "name level" adventuring. No reason that lower level parties couldn't take part in it, though.

geordie racer wrote:Given the response here maybe I should pitch it elsewhere

What's been said can be taken a couple of ways. One is that people around here don't like planar travel in their games. Two is that nothing's come along to inspire them with the awesomeness of planar travel.

I'd assume the latter.

Planar travel isn't prevalent in old school modules. The planes are there in AD&D but they're very poorly described (as far as what's cool about them and what a group should do with them). Planescape is about the only thing that's really pushed the envelope on planar travel. And that's a classic.

So, I'd take the statements on planar travel with a grain of salt. It's not that planar travel isn't fun or cool. It's probably more that people don't know why it's fun or cool. Your module could show us that.

Personally, no one gives two hoots about the thing I'm working on. I don't even think my mom, wife or best friend would buy a copy. My gaming group is decidedly "meh" on the whole thing because it predates their parents reaching puberty.

But I don't give a ****. I'm doing it because I know it's awesome and because I am a bubbling cauldron of inspiration and bile.

Yeah, I've had people I wanted to partner with completely ignore me. They're either stealing my ideas or don't want to tell me how bad the idea sucks. Artists I've been willing to pay serious money not return my emails. I loathe the RPG industry. Gah!

Joseph says it sounds like it "could be" cool. That's the only positive feedback I've had on anything thus far. That includes friends and family. The best I can say is that some people on this forum don't think my ideas are completely brain-damaged. Meager "yay".

So, I wouldn't be discouraged because people don't get it just yet. They will. You'll hit the ball out of the park and we'll be plane-hopping because your destiny is to show us how awesome it is.

Go forth and conquer!

geordie racer wrote:I'm working on a module that involves travel between planes but is very adventure specific. Given the response here maybe I should pitch it elsewhere

You could include some basic rules for planar travel in the module. I'd buy one for both the rules and the adventure.

My comment was mostly directed to trying to keep stuff like this out of the core rulebook, not trying to stop anyone from doing it in another format! Planar travel rocks!

I would not discount a module becuase it involved planar travel. Some of my favorite fantasy books involve it.

Like I said originally, it is just something I would think your adventure should tell me how to handle... we need a relic, or an npc, or the aid of a higher/lower power to get there. I would think the module were a lot cooler if that was chapter 1, than if it was like a cruise ticket.. adventure leaves from the astral plane... you have to get yourself here... not included in ticket or module price!

I would hope from what we've seen that planar travel spells/rituals in DCC would not be a sure thing to be used like an elevator but something risky, dangerous, and altogether terrifying. A module that started out telling me to roll on a chart and on a 1-3 the whole party winds up in the sun and the campaign is over... well lets call that a 'bold idea'! If your adventure is contingent on travelling to the Fairy Plane of Dinky Dell... whoever has a vested interest in us doing something there for him should provide a reliable way there and back - although it doesn't have to be a bump-free ride!

smathis wrote:Two is that nothing's come along to inspire them with the awesomeness of planar travel.

kataskicana wrote:I would not discount a module becuase it involved planar travel. Some of my favorite fantasy books involve it.

Like just about anything written by Michael Moorcock! Or Zelazny's Amber series!

Seriously, it would be interesting to create a list of Appendix N books that use this. Planar travel can be awesome if the campaign is designed to allow for that kind of thing.

In practice, I think one would have to decide (1) how many characters can do it, and if it's a power or a spell or what, and (2) if there would be artifacts capable of transporting characters from plane to plane if they can't do it by themselves. I could imagine a spelljammer-style flying ship moving from plane to plane and characters having a series of one-shot adventures. Heck, we might have just re-invented Star Trek!

smathis wrote:

geordie racer wrote:Given the response here maybe I should pitch it elsewhere

What's been said can be taken a couple of ways. One is that people around here don't like planar travel in their games. Two is that nothing's come along to inspire them with the awesomeness of planar travel.

I'd assume the latter.

Or 3, we just don't need rules for planar travel. Whether because we don't plan to have planar travel, plan to treat planar travel as a plot device, or just need a spell like "Gate" (and can use existing "gate" spells in DCC). But a whole section of a rulebook devoted to planar travel? No, thanks.

finarvyn wrote:Like just about anything written by Michael Moorcock! Or Zelazny's Amber series!

Seriously, it would be interesting to create a list of Appendix N books that use this. Planar travel can be awesome if the campaign is designed to allow for that kind of thing.

I think you're on to something here, Marv. Personally I've never run a lot of planar travel games in my past. Then, as I started reading Appendix N, I finally "got" planar travel. It's a huge part of Appendix N. As you mentioned, it's like bread-and-butter to Moorcock and the Amber series. It's the key concept in the Tier series by P.J. Farmer. It's a basic part of Carnelian Cube by de Camp & Pratt (not in a D&D sense, as it's more of humorous modern-type realms, but the conceptual framework is there). And planar travel is relevant to Lovecraft (more of a "dimensional travel" in a horrific way), and also relevant to Lord Dunsany's King of Elfland's Daughter -- neither in the modern idea of "D&D planar travel" but definitely present. And then there is the twist on planar travel, "modern man hurled mysteriously into fantastic world," which is a basic plot device used in several Appendix N books -- again, not D&D-style planes, but a similar concept (e.g., Three Hearts and Three Lions, John Carter on Mars, etc.).

After reading all these books I feel like I finally understand planar travel as a concept a little better, and it's got to be part of any game that tries to remain true to Appendix N. So planar travel is definitely present in DCC RPG. It's not a huge chunk of rules -- as people here mentioned, you basically need a couple spells and a brief overview to get the concept across. But I'd like to include some adventures that cover it in a fun way that is "nonobtrusive" to an ongoing campaign. I mean, couldn't the PCs get transported somewhere, adventure a little bit, come back, and call it a day? Planar travel doesn't have to dominate a campaign; it can be just one component that's basically like "a room or two in a dungeon."

Anyway, that's my current thinking.

goodmangames wrote:I mean, couldn't the PCs get transported somewhere, adventure a little bit, come back, and call it a day?

I like that, more room for the DM to inject a sense of mystery and wonder, bend 'rules', and not have to explain 'mechanics' to rules-heavy players.

Examples - Ravenloft, Dungeonland, The Land Beyond the Magic Mirror. To name a few.

goodmangames wrote: not D&D-style planes, but a similar concept.

I think this is the key to understanding Appendix N planes - unlearn all that tosh you never used anyway. Think of it as a way to use dimensions/other planets/other times/alternate Earth's/gates and portals to a wizard's secret stronghold or the pub at the edge of forever.

There was a time when publishers thought us proles wouldn't understand science fiction so they encouraged having a contemporary 'everyman' character that readers could identify with and see the weird new worlds through their eyes. Yeah it's part of that Alice in Wonderland/Gulliver's Travels tradition but the motivation was more about selling paperbacks.

In the past I've used the Black Ziggurat (a META-dungeon that links all dungeons) as a nexus to many worlds so I could use Greyhawk, Mars, Glorantha and post-apoc Detroit with the same PCs.

goodmangames wrote: But I'd like to include some adventures that cover it in a fun way that is "nonobtrusive" to an ongoing campaign. I mean, couldn't the PCs get transported somewhere, adventure a little bit, come back, and call it a day? Planar travel doesn't have to dominate a campaign; it can be just one component that's basically like "a room or two in a dungeon."

From play over the years I've found this is the method that players prefer because they like to get a handle on their core world/country. As they rise in level it's fun to get them out of that comfort zone - keep them searching the unknown - by dislocating them to other worlds. Modules as missions, ideal for episodic campaigns.

As they are places where the PCs are alien and 'should not be' - I usually give them a time limit before they are cut off from their world for a long time (and time may flow differently in the otherworld) or become radically 'changed' or part of the new setting.

But I can see me working in Etherscope's Great Metropolis somewhere

finarvyn wrote:I could imagine a spelljammer-style flying ship moving from plane to plane and characters having a series of one-shot adventures. Heck, we might have just re-invented Star Trek!

I played a few sessions using the Rolemaster 'Dark Space' supplement (the best thing Monte Cook ever wrote) where the PCs set sail in sail-equipped galleons through a hyperspacelike void to reach other worlds. Good fun, so I'm sure your idea would work - PCs as the away team, planar travel and aerial naval combat.