Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after November!
Moderators: DJ LaBoss, michaelcurtis, finarvyn, Harley Stroh
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
As someone who pre-ordered DCC six months ago, I'm pleased that doing it right is the highest priority. As for the closed beta offending people, get over it. All that matters in the end is a quality product. Goodman Games has a pretty impressive track record of producing excellent material. We don't 'deserve' to be shown every development detail along the way to release. I for one saw enough I liked from the first beta release that I have no doubts that the finished product will be great.
- JediOre
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 1130
- Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 4:30 pm
- Location: In a galaxy far, far, away (Missouri)
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Hi Noodles,
I've not seen you before. Welcome to the forums.
I like the cut of your jib!
I've not seen you before. Welcome to the forums.
I like the cut of your jib!
- geordie racer
- Mighty-Thewed Reaver
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Sat Jan 15, 2011 5:13 am
- Location: Newcastle, England
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
FFS, investment is about more than money, jmucchiello has been posting constructive ideas on this board all year. I disagree with some of what he's written but he's a damn sight more entitled to have a little moan than someone who hasn't contributed, because it's out of frustration rather than bitchiness.Noodles wrote:As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.
If you haven't got a few niggling worries you haven't played the damn Beta. Joseph seems to be dealing with the problems, so things will be cool. But it's people like jmucchiello who've been around to point out the dodgy bits along the journey, and helped it's development.
Sean Wills
- Ogrepuppy
- Tight-Lipped Warlock
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 pm
- Location: the Towers of Carcosa
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Mind you--I'm not disappointed about the delay of the finished product.
I'm 100% behind the idea of this RPG being the BEST RPG it can be, so playtest the hell out of it! (I just wish I was one of the playtesters!)
I'm 100% behind the idea of this RPG being the BEST RPG it can be, so playtest the hell out of it! (I just wish I was one of the playtesters!)
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Amen. +d30.geordie racer wrote:FFS, investment is about more than money, jmucchiello has been posting constructive ideas on this board all year. I disagree with some of what he's written but he's a damn sight more entitled to have a little moan than someone who hasn't contributed, because it's out of frustration rather than bitchiness.Noodles wrote:As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.
If you haven't got a few niggling worries you haven't played the damn Beta. Joseph seems to be dealing with the problems, so things will be cool. But it's people like jmucchiello who've been around to point out the dodgy bits along the journey, and helped it's development.
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more : http://arcanixrpg.webs.com
learn more : http://arcanixrpg.webs.com
-
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 1095
- Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:52 pm
- Location: Richmond, VA
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Really?Noodles wrote:As for the closed beta offending people, get over it.
I don't know where to start with this one.
Welcome to the forums.
I'm trying hard to be nice because we just met.
-
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:02 am
- Location: On the run.
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Heh. I don't think we've ever had to lock a thread here before, so don't force me to start googling admin commands.
I'll ask everyone to express themselves politely and respectfully. There are good reasons to be disappointed about the delay, and there are also good reasons for the delay. Both are legitimate points of view which you are welcome to share. Start cutting on one another and our small community will become smaller, which doesn't really serve anyone.
Thanks guys,
//H
I'll ask everyone to express themselves politely and respectfully. There are good reasons to be disappointed about the delay, and there are also good reasons for the delay. Both are legitimate points of view which you are welcome to share. Start cutting on one another and our small community will become smaller, which doesn't really serve anyone.
Thanks guys,
//H
The lucky guy who got to write some Dungeon Crawl Classics.
DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.
DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.
- romprecentor
- Wild-Eyed Zealot
- Posts: 53
- Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:17 pm
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I also don't mind pushing back the date to get it right especially considering GG excellent track record on this in the past. I do think it is important to give us a reason to check the boards however. If a second Beta is not coming perhaps some insights to some of the "Fixes" could be shared?
I am set to start running the Beta with my group in 2 weeks. Now I am afraid I could loose their interest if the Beta has too many problems. This same group is coming out of a Dragon Age game bitter about lack of support and delayed release dates so I am worried about my footing.
We all lovde the look of the Beta and the concept. The artwork in it impressed and inspired me and I think was an excellent decision to include. I have high hopes for DCC.
I am set to start running the Beta with my group in 2 weeks. Now I am afraid I could loose their interest if the Beta has too many problems. This same group is coming out of a Dragon Age game bitter about lack of support and delayed release dates so I am worried about my footing.
We all lovde the look of the Beta and the concept. The artwork in it impressed and inspired me and I think was an excellent decision to include. I have high hopes for DCC.
-Adananx the Awesome.
http://www.epicwords.com/campaigns/2077
Pbp Secret of Bone Hill characters:
Portly Trim, Cleric 1st (Barber) L, AC: 11, Str 10, Agi 11, Stm 8(-1), Per 11, Int 8(-1), Lck 12, hp 5, 21 cp, Razor, 2 x torches, large sack, scissors, candle, Improvised wooden buckler.
Fritz, Thief 1st, (Wainwright) C, AC: 10, Str 9, Agi 12, Stm 10, Per 16(+2), Int 12, Lck 13(+1), hp 5, 7 cp, club, flint & steel, lg sack(tomatoes), flask(water), black book, crowbar.
http://www.epicwords.com/campaigns/2077
Pbp Secret of Bone Hill characters:
Portly Trim, Cleric 1st (Barber) L, AC: 11, Str 10, Agi 11, Stm 8(-1), Per 11, Int 8(-1), Lck 12, hp 5, 21 cp, Razor, 2 x torches, large sack, scissors, candle, Improvised wooden buckler.
Fritz, Thief 1st, (Wainwright) C, AC: 10, Str 9, Agi 12, Stm 10, Per 16(+2), Int 12, Lck 13(+1), hp 5, 7 cp, club, flint & steel, lg sack(tomatoes), flask(water), black book, crowbar.
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I'll concede that typing 'get over it' could be seen as inflammatory, which wasn't my goal. My intent was just to back up Joseph on his reasons for not making public his word document of the changes, not to offend.
As for having played the beta, I ran both parts of the free rpg day for a group of friends. It was a blast. Sure there are things that could be improved, but there were already hundreds of posts covering any concerns I had.
Once again, sorry to offend.
As for having played the beta, I ran both parts of the free rpg day for a group of friends. It was a blast. Sure there are things that could be improved, but there were already hundreds of posts covering any concerns I had.
Once again, sorry to offend.
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.romprecentor wrote:I do think it is important to give us a reason to check the boards however.
Click here to purchase my five AD&D modules.
Each of these modules is self-contained. No other books are required other than the three AD&D rulebooks (or a similar set of rules if you prefer).
Click here to purchase prints of Luigi Castellani's cover art for these modules.
Each of these modules is self-contained. No other books are required other than the three AD&D rulebooks (or a similar set of rules if you prefer).
Click here to purchase prints of Luigi Castellani's cover art for these modules.
-
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 2704
- Joined: Sun Dec 01, 2002 12:41 pm
- Location: San Jose, CA
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.Geoffrey wrote:How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.
There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!
In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.
Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.
- Ducaster
- Hard-Bitten Adventurer
- Posts: 169
- Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:35 pm
- FLGS: Athena Games Norwich.
- Location: Travelling the Otherworld
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Re reading "Three Hearts and Three Lions" right now boss. Between coughing my lungs up ill that is..
Can't get more Appendix N than that. (He says opening a big family sized can of worms)
Can't get more Appendix N than that. (He says opening a big family sized can of worms)
{Standard Disclaimer} If it was mentioned already and I missed it, please put this down to my advanced age and senility rather than discourtesy!
My DCC games work site is here http://www.dcc.aweninspired.com/?page_id=1869 Use my forum name here as the Password
Mutatis Mundi Game Cha sheet here http://www.dcc.aweninspired.com/wp-cont ... 3.4.18.pdf
My DCC games work site is here http://www.dcc.aweninspired.com/?page_id=1869 Use my forum name here as the Password
Mutatis Mundi Game Cha sheet here http://www.dcc.aweninspired.com/wp-cont ... 3.4.18.pdf
- Ogrepuppy
- Tight-Lipped Warlock
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 pm
- Location: the Towers of Carcosa
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Mmmmm, worms. ::drool::Ducaster wrote:(He says opening a big family sized can of worms)
Pass me one!
- finarvyn
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 2600
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:42 am
- FLGS: Fair Game, Downers Grove IL
- Location: Chicago suburbs
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I've been playing the Beta since March or so and I think that it plays just fine. Most of the "fixes" are little tweaks and improvements, things that will be a little different later on when the real thing is published, but nothing that makes the Beta unplayable or broken in my opinion.romprecentor wrote:I am set to start running the Beta with my group in 2 weeks. Now I am afraid I could loose their interest if the Beta has too many problems.
A couple of suggestions:
1) look for the threads on the Cleric and Thief, since they were revised by Joseph and posted. Those changes are worth making in your campaign.
2) keep level advancement a little slow, since the Beta version doesn't have the full range of spells yet.
3) don't sweat the small stuff. Go for the "big picture" rules and philosophy and just play. I find that I can tweak a C&C module to fit DCC pretty quickly and most 3E modules (such as Goodman's DCC line) can be done without too much hassle. Just take the main ideas and go with it.
My "Fellowship of Foragers" has had a great time with the game so far and I think your group will also. Give the Beta a shot and report back!
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
- MrHemlocks
- Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:07 am
- Location: The Rollings Hobbit Hills of Ohio
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
goodmangames wrote:Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.Geoffrey wrote:How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.
There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!
In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.
Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.
As for me I am reading two books, as long as playing some HackMaster Basic, while waiting DCC release. These are both really good books and would highly advice them to those that enjoy old school fantasy and Lovecraft horror (Call of Cthulhu).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
- MrHemlocks
- Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2011 6:07 am
- Location: The Rollings Hobbit Hills of Ohio
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Is there a chance we might see some new campaign maps released along with the release of DCC? Or include parts of the maps (mini-maps) with the DCC rulebook and adventures? Like what was done in The Keep on the Borderlands? It was a mini campaign with enough maps and adventure for players & DM for many game settings. Hackmaster did the same thing with their Frandor's Keep mini-campaign. It is almost a retro-clone of The Keep on the Borderlands.Harley Stroh wrote:Smathis,
Heard loud and clear. We're considering all ideas and suggestions, regardless of the source. There is not a privileged set of personalities.
On the forums it is easy to feel like you are writing into a void. I'd ask folks to have faith that, while many ideas might not receive a formal response, we are working our way through the feedback, throwing it into the Appendix Nd20 hopper and seeing what comes out the far side.
(The one caveat I'd add is that I do give some more attention to suggestions/issues that arise out of actual playtests and playtest reports. I'm only speaking for myself, as clearly a lot of changes have been made to the core book that originated with people reading the book and calling out problems.)
Will every idea get used? Unfortunately, no. The DCC RPG has a very clear vision of what it is - and isn't - to be. Wound points, variant armor rules, etc. might end up in third party releases, or even in an annual, but they won't make the core. Not that they aren't excellent suggestions, but simply because they aren't in the core vision of the DCC line.
However, that shouldn't stop people from making radical suggestions. We were dead set on levels 1- 5 and you saw where that went. Same with thief abilities. And there are many more refinements and changes to come.
//H
Regional map in Frandor's Keep:
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/ ... M_info.pdf
Febuary is a long way off and 'something' like this would be great!
-
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 1805
- Joined: Wed Sep 15, 2004 4:02 am
- Location: On the run.
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Wow! That topo map is intense ...MrHemlocks wrote:Regional map in Frandor's Keep:
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/ ... M_info.pdf
//H
The lucky guy who got to write some Dungeon Crawl Classics.
DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.
DCC Resource thread: character sheets, judge tools, and the world's fastest 0-level party creator.
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I'm not reading lately... i've been to busy writing I had this couple of ideas for RPGs so i decided to start putting them out and for the public... you know, just to develop some "designer" muscles, so one day maybe, i'll be as good as Joseph and his teamMrHemlocks wrote:goodmangames wrote:Agreed. There will be more. As soon as I'm done writing the core manuscript.Geoffrey wrote:How about some more Designer's Blogs? We haven't had a new one in almost 4 months. Perhaps the new Designer's Blogs could focus on specific changes to the Beta. And/or perhaps the Designer's Blogs could focus on specific forthcoming DDC modules.
There's this old saying, "It's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I think when you guys see the final result of all this time and emotional investment, you will forgive us for the delay. Hopefully!
In the meantime, know that I do read the boards...the final product will clearly owe some debts to ideas produced here.
Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.
As for me I am reading two books, as long as playing some HackMaster Basic, while waiting DCC release. These are both really good books and would highly advice them to those that enjoy old school fantasy and Lovecraft horror (Call of Cthulhu).
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images ... 55&s=books
Beside the Arcanix system to which I have a link in my signature, i'm almost done writing a sci-fi game which I'm VERY excited about!
Why read, when you can write!?
Author of Arcanix RPG - fantasy medieval d6 system
learn more : http://arcanixrpg.webs.com
learn more : http://arcanixrpg.webs.com
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I've been reading the Age of Treason setting book from Mongoose for their Legend system. Non gaming, I've been reading The New Traditional Woodworker;
http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Traditional ... 075&sr=8-1
Great book if you love woodworking hand tools like me
http://www.amazon.co.uk/New-Traditional ... 075&sr=8-1
Great book if you love woodworking hand tools like me
Avatar by Stefan Poag (I now own the original!)
- reverenddak
- Moderator
- Posts: 768
- Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 11:04 am
- Location: Los Angeles
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Hey, STAY ON TOPIC!!! (heh,... I'm kidding.)goodmangames wrote: Ahem. Awkward moment over. So...anybody read any good books lately? I'm reading Jack of Shadows by Zelazny right now. Great inspiration on thief characters. I'm also indulging a recent obsession with pulp horror comics; picked up one of the EC Comics compilations recently as well as a Creepy compilation.
I'm sad that the game is being postponed, as I'm really anxious for the complete game. My gaming group has LOVED the Beta as written. Maybe because it just happens to suit my style as a DM, but it could be my enthusiasm to play it that translates into an enthusiastic GM, therefore making DCC seem like a better game. As any good GM can make 4e awesome for even the most hardcore Story-indierpg-gamer (and they exist.)
I appreciate the updated Beta classes, I'm grateful for the Beta in general. No way should anyone feel entitled to pre-release materials, even if you pre-purchase. It's obvious, and should go without saying, that such a perk will make people happy, but no way should it be expected. That sense of entitlement is really just... some BS false sense of entitlement.
Everyone wants this game to be awesome, but some seem to want Joe Goodman to write them their perfect game. The only person the game is going to be perfect for is Mr. Goodman, that's a good thing. If I wanted my perfect game, I'll write it myself. I don't have the time, patience or skill to do that so I'm constantly seeking out that game that's close. DCC is pretty f-ing close, even as a Beta. I like some of the new changes, I don't like others. But so far the "problems" are easy enough for me to change. As long as the principles of the game are ones that work for me, it will be the game for me. I'm happy so far, and I'm willing to be patient for the complete game.
on that note, yes, MORE UPDATES if you don't mind!
Reverend Dakota Jesus Ultimak, S.S.M.o.t.S.M.S., D.M.
(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/
"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons
(Dungeon) Master In Chief of Crawl! fanzine. - http://www.crawlfanzine.com/
"[...] there is no doubt that Dungeons and Dragons and its imitators are right out of the pit of hell." - William Schnoebelen, Straight talk on Dungeons & Dragons
- finarvyn
- Cold-Hearted Immortal
- Posts: 2600
- Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:42 am
- FLGS: Fair Game, Downers Grove IL
- Location: Chicago suburbs
- Contact:
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
And everything I've seen would indicate that your group will still love the game when it comes out. Keep in mind that any tweaks that occur between now and February won't change the basic philosophy or design bullet-points that Joseph outlined in the early "what it is and what it isn't" design blog back in January.reverenddak wrote:I'm sad that the game is being postponed, as I'm really anxious for the complete game. My gaming group has LOVED the Beta as written. Maybe because it just happens to suit my style as a DM, but it could be my enthusiasm to play it that translates into an enthusiastic GM, therefore making DCC seem like a better game.
http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/vie ... =60&t=7154
And I may be guilty of the same "it just happens to suit my style as a DM" thing. My group has had a blast with DCC.
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
- Ogrepuppy
- Tight-Lipped Warlock
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 11:26 pm
- Location: the Towers of Carcosa
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
Y'know, even after all the brouhaha of the above posts....
...I STILL CAN'T WAIT.
I was browsing these boards and reading comments and just basking in the excitement and pleasure people are having with the (occasionally-wonky) Beta rules, reading the ideas being tossed around and the kooky mini-adventures people are writing and running.
This is gonna be an amazing RPG.
...I STILL CAN'T WAIT.
I was browsing these boards and reading comments and just basking in the excitement and pleasure people are having with the (occasionally-wonky) Beta rules, reading the ideas being tossed around and the kooky mini-adventures people are writing and running.
This is gonna be an amazing RPG.
Re: Goodman, please don't publish DDC RPG until after Novemb
I've been tracking down terrible zombie themed rpgs to see how low the bar is set In terms of quality and playability. And apparently, it's really low