jmucchiello wrote:moes1980 wrote:I am hoping that the rules provide fairly regiours guid lines about what each level of an MDoA can do. Something like this:
3+: only an action or a move, can't combine both. Cannot cause any effect that would last more than a single round. The highest penaltiy that can be bestowed is 1d3
4+: Only single action, cannot do both a move and an attack, only one. any wound effects last for d3 rounds (or turns, or what ever the term might be). Roll d4 to derteman any penalties to die rolls
........
7+: Can do both a move and an attack, including great leaps and acrobatic stunts. Can inflict a permanent penatly of d4, or a tempory penalty equal to d7 for 3d4 rounds. (so one eye could be gouged out maybe, but not both for total blidness)
Special attacks avaliable for any level of MDoA:
Disarm: Opponent makes a reflex save equal to 10+ a roll of the fighters bonus die. If fail the opponet drops his weapon
trip: Opponent makes a reflex save equal to 10+ a roll of the fighters bonus die
Acrobatic stunt: Get to make a move equal to half your speed +roll of the bonus die with out suffering free wacks from opponents.
Subdual: Instead of inflicting normal damage, inflict 1d4+bouns die+str damage. Enemy must make fort save dc 10+subdual damage delt or fall unconsious (only works on huminoids)
Shove enemy:
Grapple:
Shild shatter
Shild bash
Throw enemy to ground:
...
I want to point out that I said guidelines, not rigorous guidelines. This is too regimented for me. I was thinking more like:
Target
number: attempted effect
3: disarm or knockdown or knock 5' backward or trip and opponent or sand in eyes (or other 1 round distraction)
5: automatic grapple or lockdown of weapon or knock backward/sideways 10+ feet or attack second rank ignoring first rank or any d3+1 round distraction or spread attack against two foes
7: called shots causing disabled limbs for up to d5 rounds or multi-opponent disarm or multi-opponent trip or taking something held in opponent's hand (like a weapon or magical doodad.)
9: Attacking multiple first and second rank targets or any multi-target attack using one opponent as weapon against other target(s) or dismembering opponent's limb(s)
11: ripping a still-beating heart out of an opponent (or shooting an organ out the back of an opponent with a bow&arrow).
See. Simple.
Well, lets say I am a player, and I say "I want to run and slide under the legs of the ogre to avoid a free whack, and than climb up his back and string my rope around his neck to start choking him to death." What level of MDoA would that be? I think we both agree that it shouldnt be totally subjective to GM ruling, but at the same time it is not realisitc to expect every example of that to be listed on a chart. But with my chart, we know that it involves not only a move but an acrobatic stunt plus an action. The action could clearly be rulled an attempted grapple. This sounds like at least a 7+ MDoA. (Normally the grapple check can be attempted at any level but in this case, its being combined with an acrobaitc stunt so it is a tougher MDoA). So the player rolls to hit, will assume he dose hit, and rolls 7+ on the bonus die. So far, the pc managed to slide under the ogre's legs and bound up on to its back without allowing it a free whack. However, he still has to succed on the grapple check. The player rolls his bonus die and adds the result to 10, and the ogre makes a reflex save vs that number. If he succeds the player falls off the ogres back, but is still behind the ogre. If he fails, the player succeds, and can do 1d4 subdual against the ogres con score. Each turn the ogre can try to throw the player off with an apposed strength checks.
In this way, the play gets to think up of cool stuff, and there is a guide line about what level of MDoA that is. With your chart, I am not sure what level that would be. The +5 one indicates an automatic grapple but it dose not mention if the player can combine that with running (an additional move action) under the legs of the ogre and bounding up its back to avoid the free whack. Can the GM rule that:
"ok, but since you have to run up to the ogre he gets a free whack"?
And than the player could retorts: "but its my MDoA, you shouldnt get a free whack as I run by,"
GM reply: "your MDoA is your running up its back and auto grappling, but your still moving around it so its still a free whack on you..."
And, do we really want to say that a 5+ would auto grapple an ogre?
GM: "Becuse its an ogre your trying to grapple im going to rule that its a 7+ MDo A and not 5+'"
PLayer: "but thats not what it says! it says auto grapple opponet and has no limits on the size, this is my 5+ MDoA after all, and the chart says its fine..."
and thus the dissagrements ensue. I think auto grappling another human should be tougher than grappling a 9 foot tall ogre but it appears to be the same difficulty based on that chart. Thats why I would do away with the auto grapple and give the enemy some kind of save, much the way a MU has to both succed on a spell casting check and his oppenet gets a save, at least in certain situations. Also, with your chart,the player could say "im going to attempt a +5 MDoA to auto grapple the ogre" and he dose not need to really explain how he is going to do that. But the other chart dose not list what you can do, it lists what you can't do and only in terms of mechanics. I think this gives alot more freedom for players to think up of their own level appropiate MDoAs rather than listing actions or examples of actions. I don't want to look at a list of options and have to pick one or something similar, I want to think up of my own MDoA and have a list of what mechanical limitations exist based on my skill level.
another example:
Player: I want to swing on the rigging of the ship to knock an apponet off of the edge of the ship and into the ocean.
GM looks at chart and finds that, say, a 6+ (or what ever level the game desingers decides makes sense) MDoA allows for an acrobatic stunt plus action (in the case, the closest thing is a bull rush) but dose not avoid free whacks. "So, you can either do that stunt as a level 6+ and take a free whack, or do it as a level 7+ stunt, and avoid the free whacks, but its tougher to pull off."
Player: "I will do the one that avoids the free whack" and makes the rolls. If he succeds, he got to get from one side of the ship to the other with no free wahcks, and gets to pull of an apposed strength check to shove the enemy off the edge of the ship." (maybe if he rolls a 6+ he still pulls off the stunt but suffers free whacks, and maybe if he makes a 5 plus, he can do the stunt with no free whacks, but cant do the bull rush, and maybe a 4+ means he swings up to the enemy, suffering free whacks, and gets no attacks, 3+ means he gets to swing halfway across the ship, and others is a fail. I dont know if we would want to do it this way or just have a fail be a fail).
And, my favorite part, if the player rolls a natural one the dm can say "you swing by, every one gets a free whack on you thats in yoru path of travel, you swing out over the edge of the ship and lose your grip, and fall into the ocean yourself." If the player was just trying to swing down, and nothing else than a fumble could just be "you lose your grip and fall to the deck, suffering 1d6 damage."
Another example:
an enemy with a spear is charging an enemy standing ont he edge of a cliff. The player states "I want to do a MDoA where, as the enemy charges, I grab the spear and polevault him over and into the cliff."
How would you rule which level of MDoA that is? Well, no move action, and its basically an opposed action. It most closely matches a "throw opponet to the ground" so, when the enemy charges, and on the enemies turn (asumming the player declared his MDoA action during his own turn) could make apposed rolls against the enemies attack roll. If the player rolls a 3+ he succeds at throwng the enemy to the ground, which is the cliff, where there is not ground, and he falls to his death. Of course, having higher bonus dice will make this MDoA more easy to pull off since its an apposed attack, but the player still has to beat the enemy's attack roll AND roll 3+ on the action die.
Even with my shotty table that I threw together on the fly, I feel like there is pretty good guidence on how to handle all kinds of MDoAs and could probably fit on a chart that takes the same space as a single MU spell or maybe even less.
