We just played our first session of Eldritch, and love the system - it's the best I've ever seen for old-style dungeon crawling. But we do have a few questions about the rules - could someone please provide some clarifications?
1. On page 14: "His Specialization with the axe grants him +2 points to damage, and a +1 to Initiative in battle when using his one-handed combat axe." Does this mean that you don't get the harm bonus or initiative bonus from a weapon unless you have the Specialization in that weapon? If this is the case, then what is the benefit of using a sword over a dagger if you don't have the Specialization?
2. Traps: the core rulebook does not seem to explain exactly how traps, etc. work. Do you get to roll your ability (e.g. Reflexes) first, and then only if you fail, soak the damage on your Active Defense Pool (e.g. Dodge)? Or does the damage go straight to the Active Defense Pool with no roll? (Or is it just a roll with no chance to use ADP points?) If possible, can you please provide some examples?
3. Shields (page 63): Medium shields grant +1 to the armour check, and Deflect is calculated normally, and Large shields grant +2 to the armour check but impose a penalty of -50% to the Deflect ADP. So... what if you're not wearing armour? Do you have an effective armour of 1 or 2, or is the shield bonus simply lost? If so, what is the benefit of using a Medium or Large shield when not wearing armour?
4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?
6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.
7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?
Thanks in advance for your answers! I hope we don't seem too negative - despite these questions, we really enjoyed the system and look forward to playing it again. We just need to understand it a bit better first.
Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.
Questions after first play session
Moderators: finarvyn, dancross
Re: Questions after first play session
More questions we remembered.
How should we deal with disarming and knockback/pushing in combat when using ERPS?
How should we deal with disarming and knockback/pushing in combat when using ERPS?
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- Wild-Eyed Zealot
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- Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 10:46 am
Re: Questions after first play session
We ran into that same situation and came to a very easy/swift solution to Pushing.Ze Groupe wrote:More questions we remembered.
How should we deal with disarming and knockback/pushing in combat when using ERPS?
Instead of making a weapon attack, you may roll the ability: Feats of Strength > Pushing & Pulling > Push. The target makes an active opposition roll for: Feats of Strength > Pushing & Pulling > Brace. The target moves as many feet as the attacker beats his opposed roll by. E.g., attacker rolls a total of 8, while the target rolled 3. The target moves back 5 feet.
Since movement in ERP is abstract, you would probably not need rules for 'knockback' due to large weapon damage: it could just be narrated. However, if your players need to push an enemy over a cliff, this house rule works nicely.
Disarm could be a similiar opposed roll (perhaps Reflexes > Combat Reflexes).
Re: Questions after first play session
Hey...I'm just dropping in to say I will get to these questions ASAP. Right now I'm restricted to work computers or hotspots, so it's slow going...(it will get better for me in June, hopefully).
But fear not, I'm not going away! Stay tuned...
But fear not, I'm not going away! Stay tuned...
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- Far-Sighted Wanderer
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Wed May 07, 2008 7:19 am
- Location: Oxford, UK
Re: Questions after first play session
I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.Ze Groupe wrote:1. On page 14: "His Specialization with the axe grants him +2 points to damage, and a +1 to Initiative in battle when using his one-handed combat axe." Does this mean that you don't get the harm bonus or initiative bonus from a weapon unless you have the Specialization in that weapon? If this is the case, then what is the benefit of using a sword over a dagger if you don't have the Specialization?
Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.2. Traps: the core rulebook does not seem to explain exactly how traps, etc. work. Do you get to roll your ability (e.g. Reflexes) first, and then only if you fail, soak the damage on your Active Defense Pool (e.g. Dodge)? Or does the damage go straight to the Active Defense Pool with no roll? (Or is it just a roll with no chance to use ADP points?) If possible, can you please provide some examples?
As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.3. Shields (page 63): Medium shields grant +1 to the armour check, and Deflect is calculated normally, and Large shields grant +2 to the armour check but impose a penalty of -50% to the Deflect ADP. So... what if you're not wearing armour? Do you have an effective armour of 1 or 2, or is the shield bonus simply lost? If so, what is the benefit of using a Medium or Large shield when not wearing armour?
I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
I agree, that did seem odd to me too.5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?
Not sure, I would think for simplicity you would get the bonus all the time (if you have Melee>Specialisation etc). It does seem a bit odd that you can move faster if you are holding a sword etc, but in terms of simplicity it might be easier.6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.
Again, don't remember seeing these anywhere.7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?
Seconded, these would be very useful additions.Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.
cheers,
Mark
Re: Questions after first play session
That is correct.I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.
Yes, traps deliver Potential-Harm. Some traps may bypass armor, or disallow certain types of active defense. Because ADPs refresh so quickly outside of combat, traps will usually have deadlier Potential-Harm. Certain traps can work like spells, mirroring Effects (like poison). This deserves it's own article, methinks.Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.
Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.
4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.
I am going to ask my "weapons expert" (randy) to tackle that one. He must have eaten the secret notes on ranges.
Probably a bad choice of wording, given the semantic difficulty between Evade and Dodge. Just remember, Evade is for close-in melee, and Dodge is used against ranged attacks.5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?
I apply the initiative bonus at the beginning of each round. The character's weapon must be chosen at the beginning of a round to get the initiative bonus. Otherwise he'll act on his base Reflexes ranked phase.6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.
I don't have such a listing right now. I have to think about how some objects might allow things to blow through in certain spots...like arrows through thin wooden doors. Other things might be so tough that assigning hit points might almost be silly. As GM I've always made it up on the spot, depending on the circumstance, but I can see how a little chart for guidelines would be good.7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?
Seconded, these would be very useful additions. [/quote]Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.
I would like to see a full bestiary/treasure book published, but the campaign setting DOES have critters presented in it that are specific to that world. For common beasts, check out the free wiki. Once I get internet back in June (hopefully), at least access I don't have to travel a distance to get to, I'll start adding some more generic material. A real "monster manual" would be treated in much greater detail, of course.
Re: Questions after first play session
Cool, we'll look forward to it.Yes, traps deliver Potential-Harm. Some traps may bypass armor, or disallow certain types of active defense. Because ADPs refresh so quickly outside of combat, traps will usually have deadlier Potential-Harm. Certain traps can work like spells, mirroring Effects (like poison). This deserves it's own article, methinks.Not sure, but I guess that you could do either, but treating a trap as Potential-Harm sounds sensible - but as your pools always refresh outside combat, unless the trap actually did Toughness damage you would be unharmed.
But if this is the case, then what is the point of carrying a shield when not wearing armour. Why does the shield give you an effective armour of say you had D6 armour, the shield gives you 2 to 7 instead of 1 to 6 (and that would only increase with bigger shields), but when you're not wearing armour, suddenly the shield stops preventing those points of damage?Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.As you say, I think you get the +1/+2 as armour, and you still get to use Deflect pools to avoid harm, which you wouldn't without the shield.
Cheers, good to know we weren't insane in not being able to find it.4. Ranges (page 32): "Each weapon has its own short, medium and long-range statistics." Where are these listed?
I don't recall seeing these listed anywhere.
I am going to ask my "weapons expert" (randy) to tackle that one. He must have eaten the secret notes on ranges.
Fair enough, just used to playing games which are very specific about wording, with abilities that negate any other abilities that use the word 'Target' for example, so this seemed a bit odd.Probably a bad choice of wording, given the semantic difficulty between Evade and Dodge. Just remember, Evade is for close-in melee, and Dodge is used against ranged attacks.5. Reflexes are used to calculate Evade, but not to calculate Dodge - but Reflexes has the Specialization 'Dodge'. This is confusing/counter-intuitive - are we missing something here?
andI apply the initiative bonus at the beginning of each round. The character's weapon must be chosen at the beginning of a round to get the initiative bonus. Otherwise he'll act on his base Reflexes ranked phase.6. Initiative bonus - while carrying a weapon with an initiative bonus, does a character get that initiative bonus when doing any action in combat, or only when attacking with the weapon? If not, it seems odd - a character simply running would act after someone attacking with a heavy weapon.
But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;That is correct.I believe that is the case - it's hidden in some text somewhere (sorry, don't have the book with me), but basically it seems that if you are just using Melee you just roll that as you are using brute force, natural talent, dexterity etc but you are not particularly good at that specific weapon. If you use Melee>Specialisation you also get the Initiative and Harm bonus, and if you use Melee>Specialisation>Mastery then you also get the Mastery DP bonus (on the weapon tables) while wielding that weapon.
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.
We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.
Cheers, such a chart would be handy, just to provide baselines so that we're not assigning anything game-breaking, or ineffectually pointless.I don't have such a listing right now. I have to think about how some objects might allow things to blow through in certain spots...like arrows through thin wooden doors. Other things might be so tough that assigning hit points might almost be silly. As GM I've always made it up on the spot, depending on the circumstance, but I can see how a little chart for guidelines would be good.7. Strength of objects under total cover (page 32): "Total cover - subtracts 4 points and potential harm is applied to the inanimate object first as if it were an extra defense pool." Is a guideline provided anywhere for how much damage various objects could take before being destroyed?
I would like to see a full bestiary/treasure book published, but the campaign setting DOES have critters presented in it that are specific to that world. For common beasts, check out the free wiki. Once I get internet back in June (hopefully), at least access I don't have to travel a distance to get to, I'll start adding some more generic material. A real "monster manual" would be treated in much greater detail, of course.[/quote]Seconded, these would be very useful additions.Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.
Cool, we'll look forward to it.
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- Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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Re: Questions after first play session
The benefit of using a shield without armor (well, a small shield anyway) is for the bonus to your Deflect DP. Small shields like bucklers do absolutely nothing for you if you're not moving them around to intercept attacks. Large shields are difficult to move around and intercept specific attacks, but they're so big there's a good chance attacks will just hit them.Ze Groupe wrote:But if this is the case, then what is the point of carrying a shield when not wearing armour. Why does the shield give you an effective armour of say you had D6 armour, the shield gives you 2 to 7 instead of 1 to 6 (and that would only increase with bigger shields), but when you're not wearing armour, suddenly the shield stops preventing those points of damage?Yes, but small shields offer no passive protection. Just a +50% boost to Melee basic + Shield Specialization branch MRV total.
But I see where you're coming from, and I don't think having an armor check of 0D0+1 or +2 would be unbalancing in any way.
I vaguely recall the issue of initiative and dual-wielding being discussed in another thread on this forum. But I can't seem to find it now so maybe I imagined it. I like your solution, though.But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.
We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.
As I understand it, the wiki is meant mostly for players and GMs to put stuff in...so if you want a monster a week, get to it!Lastly, a few requests that we think would allow people to better enjoy this system:
1. A bestiary, or at least a monster a week added to the wiki. This is a real drawback for us as players at the moment.
2. A short one-session adventure designed to showcase the mechanics and guide new groups through the system.
Dieter Zimmerman
[[Faceless Minion of the Dark Master]]
[[Faceless Minion of the Dark Master]]
Re: Questions after first play session
That's actually how it works. If the character wears no armor, he'd still get the passive bonus from medium to large shields.But I see where you're coming from, and I don't think having an armor check of 0D0+1 or +2 would be unbalancing in any way.
A) You count the initiative bonus of the weapon readied at the begining of the round, and not the weapon held in the "off hand" if using two weapons.But the thing here is, there are a couple of issues unanswered;
A) What if you have two different weapons, which initiative bonus do you count.
B) Why does carrying a combat axe make you act first (thus implying that you are faster) when doing something non-axe related like climbing a ladder, over someone who has no weapons and is therefore unencumbered.
B) Remember in a single phase (not round) heroes go first. If you're comparing two heroes, then roll an opposed roll of reflexes. If you (as GM) feel that movement should go before certain weapon attacks, it's easy to rule.
Hmmm...I like that. I'll have to put that in my notes for future consideration.We have a suggestion, as all initiative bonuses range from 1 to 3; invert them and make them penalties. So a Dagger, which was a +3 becomes a -1 (the inversion is important, otherwise it makes a Sword faster than a Knife). Then make it so that when you use a weapon without specialisation in it's family, you have to take the penalty to initiative. But as soon as you specialise, the penalty is gone. This provides specialisation incentive, and more accurately symbolises both unfamiliarity with a untrained weapon AND that someone not carrying a weapon is not going to be slowed down by it and is therefore faster than someone who does have a weapon.