Goodman Games

To Goodman Games: A compliment and a question

First the compliment --
I just picked up a copy of DCC #12 - The Blackguard's Revenge (for PC levels 9-11) from my FLHS (favorite local hobby store). I am a little out of practice at both DM'ing and playing, having not gamed much over the last five years. And, I'm not up on all of the latest D&D 3rd Ed or 3.5 Ed rules and stuff. But, I had a very active 1st Ed (AD&D) campaign set in the City State of the Invincible Overlord setting that was published by Judges Guild which ran from my high school years until my mid-30's (something like 18-20 years).

I must say that this installment of the DCC series is well done and takes me back in time to the glory days of AD&D. The maps are very good to excellent, the adventure content is good, and the writing reminds me of some of my favorite classic TSR modules. I'm very pleased, and will likely be picking up additional DCC installments if and when I revive my campaign.

Now the Question --
In all my years as a player and as a DM, I don't ever remember going on or running an adventure that would be considered, using today's descriptions, an epic level adventure. To be sure, there were players in my campaign that exceeded 10th level, but it was only after a LOT of playing, and a LOT of killing, and even then we didn't think of these PC's as epic level characters. I made up many of the adventures that I used, but I never conceived of an adventure as difficult as The Tomb of Horrors, Tegal Manor (another Judges Guild product) or The Blackguard's Revenge (difficult in terms of the PC's survival, that is).

There are a TON of undead in this dungeon. Can a group of 4-6 characters of 9-11th level really survive this adventrue? Can you share a little about the capabilities of the playtest PC's, such as level, magic abilities, magic items, etc., so that I can get a better idea of the strength of party necessary to make it through this "killer dungeon"? Would it be possible to "see" the character sheets for one of the playtest parties?

Thanks for the insight, and keep up the good work.

tacojohn4547

I'm glad you like The Blackguard's Revenge. It's a good module. The series has a lot of other good ones, too, including some that will put the blackguard's challenges to shame.

In other words, if you think THAT's tough, check out Crypt of the Devil Lich:

http://www.goodman-games.com/5012preview.php

All future Dungeon Crawl Classics will include the pregen stats in the module. I get asked your question a lot (though usually along the lines of "Can we get the pregen stats?" rather than "How did they survive?" ), so starting with #13, they'll all include the pregen stats. Actually, #14 won't because it's a special case (six modules for nonconsecutive level ranges), but #13 will have pregens and every DCC from #15 onward will as well.

Now, with that prelude out of the way, here are some answers to your questions. Um... I don't have the stats of the pregens from DCC #12. Not much of an answer, huh? But I will e-mail the playtesters and see if they can post here what they used for the games.

I am one of the playtesters of this module. My husband and I ran the module for playtesting. The players listed in the module are a combination of our two groups. I played in his game before I ran mine. When I first read the module to prepare (yes I read it before I played, I made no major decisions for the party) I thought the same thing you do about it being WAY too difficult for a party of 4-5 at level 9-11. We ran with 4 players all at 10th level. We quickly found out that it was not too difficult. While the number of undead are many they are not as powerful as most. They are written to initially fight with their weapons not their natural abilities of energy drain. Most characters of that level have an armor class that does not allow the creatures to easily hit them. The DM would have to roll extremely well to cause much damage. There are also a great many items scattered about the dungeon that will counteract the effects of undead attacks. The trouble for the party will most likely come when they find the BIG BAD. If they are smart they will be able to defeat the beast. I know the spirit of this module is to HACK and SLASH with not too much thought going into it, but there was always a part of those early modules where you had to figure out the puzzle, so consider the BIG BAD the place where most of the strategy will need to take place.

Have fun witht the module and let me know how the players liked it. They can even ask for advice if they want and there is a break in game play.

TTFN
Ementra Malaeda (Yes it's my character's name not mine)

Hi tacojohn,

I'm Jeff one of the playtesters for this module.

I play tested as a 10th level wizard in this module. The product description describes this as a battle versus an ARMY of undead. As ementra (our DM) stated the creature that made up most of this army had to roll very well to injure the party. If my memory serves me correct they had a base attack of 7, meaning with a roll of 19 they could hit an AC of 26.

As a wizard I was the most vunerable party member.

My wizard wore a mithral shirt had a +2 dex bonus and had 2 magic items(+3 ring of protection, +2 loun stone) that gave me an additional +5. This totaled my AC to 21. I augmented my AC further by casting the First level spell Mage Armor to bring my AC to 25....See where i'm going The majority of the undead needed an 18 just to hit a lightly armored wizard.

The end "Bosses" can be tough(especially if the dice don't cooperate) but without a real threat of death to the characters it would leave the module flat and unsatisfying.

I wrote extensive notes on how are party handled each encounter..This is a tough but possible adventure for characters of this level. Players must make the most of the SKILLS, FEATS & Spells they have learned to achieve this level range(9-11)

If you have any questions please feel free to email me.
(I won't post details of how we did it because I dont wont to spoil the fun for any players who might read this)

Jeff

...me too !
I actually assisted in playtesting this module twice, once as GM, and once as a player. The previous two posters really did a good job of explaining why the module isn't as horribly difficult as you might first imagine.
Before any playtesting, Ementra and myself (both of us serving as player/notetaker/GM for each other - we had two test groups) discussed how difficult the adventure seemed to be, and that we may have to suggesst fewer monsters or recommend a higher level. In actuality, it ended up not being a concern, and I actually corresponded with Mr. Goodman about increasing the monsters ability to hit, based on the player's recommendations.
The player's initial reaction is likely to be the same as our (initial) reaction when they realize what they are dealing with: "Whoa! That's going to be way too tough!"
However, I think installing that little bit of fear into the players (even if its not fully warranted), makes playing the module all that much more interesting for both the players an the GM!
As far as the playtesting characters, I don't have my full notes on them here, but just to give you an idea (from memory):
The majority of characters were 10th level. For every 9th level character used (only 1 or 2 between the two playtest groups), there was also an 11th level character.
One party had pretty much "standard" classes (halfling rogue, elven wizard, ranger, etc. - meant to simulate the "vanilla" D&D party), while the other group made up some unusual characters (half orc bard, shadowdancer, Forgotten Realm's Spellfire user, etc.) to see how a more diverse party would handle it.
In summary: you don't have to be too scared, but don't tell your players that.
*Sheridan
-Scott Moore