Goodman Games

Hi everybody!

While the change in damage for the PC's weapons is clearly stated in the module, I wonder if the damage that the monsters deal out shouldn't also be altered. IMO a giant ant should do more damage to tiny or even diminutive sized opponents that it does to medium-sized ones.

I'm fully aware that this would change the challenge rating for all encounters in chapter 2 and make the module not suitable anymore for 2nd level characters, but it's also a consequent appliance of the rule.

What do you guys think? I'm a bit torn apart here because I'm usually pretty anal when it comes to the inner logic of the game. OTOH it would complicate things immensely and - after all, it's just fantasy, isn't it?

Damage - as pertains to the rules - is usually a function of the size of the attacker, not the target. A Medium giant worker ant does the same damage to everyone no matter what.

What you're talking about is having the ant do more damage to smaller critters. This is my guesswork, but I think that's implied in the rules by creatures that are naturally smaller having lower HD and Con scores.
The attacks don't do more damage per se, but the same damage brings smaller creatures closer to death than they do with larger creatures.

For example, that Medium giant worker ant doing 1d6 damage per bite means a whole lot more to a Tiny grig with 2 hp than it does to a Small goblin with 5 hp, and more to a Medium hobgoblin with 6 hp than to a Large ogre with 29 hp.

Now, this all falls apart when you introduce magic, of course. An ogre mage that turns into a sparrow somehow has all the same hit points he used to have (although much less Con, so Con-damaging/draining attacks work better on him now).
At some point you have to put the reality hat aside and run with it...as you pointed out, it is fantasy.

I had the same dilemia; I built up the encounter to have these - now giant sized rats - attacking the party, and they did no damage.

Jengenritz wrote:Damage - as pertains to the rules - is usually a function of the size of the attacker, not the target. A Medium giant worker ant does the same damage to everyone no matter what.

What you're talking about is having the ant do more damage to smaller critters. This is my guesswork, but I think that's implied in the rules by creatures that are naturally smaller having lower HD and Con scores.
The attacks don't do more damage per se, but the same damage brings smaller creatures closer to death than they do with larger creatures.

For example, that Medium giant worker ant doing 1d6 damage per bite means a whole lot more to a Tiny grig with 2 hp than it does to a Small goblin with 5 hp, and more to a Medium hobgoblin with 6 hp than to a Large ogre with 29 hp.

Now, this all falls apart when you introduce magic, of course. An ogre mage that turns into a sparrow somehow has all the same hit points he used to have (although much less Con, so Con-damaging/draining attacks work better on him now).
At some point you have to put the reality hat aside and run with it...as you pointed out, it is fantasy.

Thanks for answering. Your argumentation is exactly what I was meaning: The rules as written aren't logical in this case. Guess I have to accept them. The other option would be to change them, although this would mean to make magical enlargement far more dangerous. I'm not sure yet which way to prefer because meddling with the rules can sometimes bring unwanted consequences.

slimykuotoan wrote:I had the same dilemia; I built up the encounter to have these - now giant sized rats - attacking the party, and they did no damage.

Er... no damage? How's that?

This exact same question came up once before, long, long ago on a thread far, far away. If you dig through the old posts you'll find it somewhere on this board...

goodmangames wrote:This exact same question came up once before, long, long ago on a thread far, far away. If you dig through the old posts you'll find it somewhere on this board...

You know what? I actually did this before I posted my question but didn't find anything.

Since I really don't want to wade through all the pages again, I just leave it as it is.

Thanks anyway and a merry christmas to everyone on this forum,

Clarence