Eyekin & Cultist Challenge Ratings?

[Imperious]

I'm certain I'm not the only one who has wondered about this, but I've finally gotten around to including Beholders, Eyekin, and cultists into my campaign. I was reviewing the Complete Guide to Beholders and I didn't see a refernce for how to assign a CR (Challenge Rating) to the various level cultists and Eyekin that I generate.

Is it as simple as treating each level of Cultist, Eyekin, or Aberrant Warrior as any other character level?

I assume that you've answered this question before (months ago, no doubt) but since I couldn't find it by Searching, I thought I would ask.

Thanks.

[Imperious]

Ok, so I guess the cultists just gain 1 CR per level like "normal" classes, but it seems to me that they are effectively 'just' Commoners unless they

(a) take the Eyekin Blood Feat as a feat-of-choice at 1st or 4th level, in which case they grow eyestalks as per Table 4-3, or

(b) reach (something like) 6th level in Cultists, in which case they get the Eyekin Blood Feat as a class feature and immediately sprout 6 eyestalks as per table 4-3.

Am I correct? Granted, I don't have the book in front of me, so I'm not certain of the Table number (but it's close) or the feat name (but it's something related to 'Blood')

Also, the text describing the cultist seems to say that they get 1 eyestalk per eyebeam (as per Table 4-3, with the d, d+1, ..., eyebeams) but as I read it, at 20th level cultist they only have 17 or 18 eyebeams. Is this so, or did I misread or misinterpret the table with Level vs Eyebeams?

I really could use some input from someone who actually knows how it is supposed to work.

Thanks

[OneSmallKeith]

Hi Imperious!

The cultist is a standard core class, and the Eyekin are an ECL 0 race. So a 3rd level Eyekin cultist would have a CR of 3. You are correct, however, that unless you possess the Eyekin Blood feat, you do not get the use of eyestalks as a cultist. Without the use of eyestalks, it would be reasonable to consider the cultist an NPC class and thus apply a -1 CR to characters with levels in the class. I'd remove this as soon as they gain eyestalks, however. The class is a slight improvement over the commoner -- 4 skill points per level, moderate BAB, better armor & weapon proficiencies, good Will save -- but is slightly worse than the expert.


As for number of eyestalks, a cultist gains a new stalk each time he gains a new eyebeam ability. Thus, you are correct: at 20th level, a cultist should have 18 eyestalks.

-Keith Baker

[CharlieRock]

I really liked this Complete Guide. I do have a pretty small concern regarding the eyetouched template. Say you do something like put the template on most 1HD monsters (like, kobolds or dire rats) then the CR goes up for the xp (now a CR3 creature?). But at 1HD they still don't present a challenge (no eyebeams, and pretty much just a +2AC).
This is pretty easy to fix on your own (or in my case I just left it because I only had a few monsters that this anomaly occured with). I thought about bumping the CR modifier to show an increase to CR1 (for monsters of CR <1), CR2 (for monsters of CR1), and regular as printed after that.
Besides that I really liked this book. Actually I liked this anomaly as well. I just chuckled and thought of it as a XP bonus (a slight one) and since the beholder was in the area I felt the PCs would deserve a small break.

[walrusjester]

Hooray! I get to answer a question about one of my non-DragonMech books!

A 1 HD eyetouched creature isn't going to be a combat monster, true. What 1 HD creature is? If your eyetouched are going up against a low-level party, they still have a couple noteworthy advantages: +3 AC (better than a shield), possible Hit Die improvement, "a vicious maw full of fangs," no need to eat or breathe, and +2 Int. So it's harder to kill, has at least one more skill, and it's smarter than its pureblood cousins. Just imagine a cavern full of eyetouched kobolds using poison gases (that they don't breathe)...

[CharlieRock]

Hooray! I get to answer a question about one of my non-DragonMech books!

A 1 HD eyetouched creature isn't going to be a combat monster, true. What 1 HD creature is? If your eyetouched are going up against a low-level party, they still have a couple noteworthy advantages: +3 AC (better than a shield), possible Hit Die improvement, "a vicious maw full of fangs," no need to eat or breathe, and +2 Int. So it's harder to kill, has at least one more skill, and it's smarter than its pureblood cousins. Just imagine a cavern full of eyetouched kobolds using poison gases (that they don't breathe)...

Thanks, dude.
It really didn't bother me enough to change anythnig and just stuck out to my eyes as odd.
Now I need to go back and change one of the encounters for tonight (kobolds with poison gas ... nice )

[walrusjester]

Now I need to go back and change one of the encounters for tonight (kobolds with poison gas ... nice :twisted: )

Game Design 101: See what the NPCs can do that the PCs can't, then use it to hurt them.

[CharlieRock]

Now I need to go back and change one of the encounters for tonight (kobolds with poison gas ... nice )

Game Design 101: See what the NPCs can do that the PCs can't, then use it to hurt them.

Last time I did that I went and made a red half-dragon/troll. Vicious