Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic failure

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Tokage
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Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic failure

Post by Tokage » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:49 pm

According to core book, warriors and such can try to cast spells from scrolls untrained - by rolling a d10 and not adding any bonuses by ability score or caster level.

But here's the thing - even the first level spells require at least a roll of 12 to succeed. This means that a fighter attempting to read a magical scroll is doomed from the beginning!

So what's even the point? Why make him roll a d10 to see what happens? Why not just say "It doesn't work"? The only even remote reason I can think of is to see if he rolls a natural 1 and gains magical mishap, but even then it's not much of a reason.

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by Raven_Crowking » Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:29 pm

The warrior can burn Luck. A lucky Halfling watching him can burn Luck on his behalf. A magical effect might require a lower spell check result (see The People of the Pit).
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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by GnomeBoy » Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:45 pm

What Raven said, but also: Mercurial Magic on the particular spell may mean a bump up in the size of the die rolled, perhaps.

Beyond the RAW, there could be a realm or zone where magic flows more easily and there is some kind of bonus to ALL spellcheck attempts.

A Warrior could have the favor of a Patron (Patron Bond can be cast on others), and the Patron could be favorably involved in the situation...

— The real point of the rules is anything is possible...
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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by DM Marcus » Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:46 pm

Look at you guys... Giving superb answers...

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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by Zorrah » Fri Jun 23, 2017 5:45 am

On the same kind of topic, another kind of silly question about how that works. It does have Wizard's apprentice as a level 0 character occupation. Would a character that rolled that as a level 0 be able to go on to make this roll as a trained roll, since such a thing would be in his background?

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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by Bilgewriggler » Sat Jun 24, 2017 10:49 am

Zorrah wrote:On the same kind of topic, another kind of silly question about how that works. It does have Wizard's apprentice as a level 0 character occupation. Would a character that rolled that as a level 0 be able to go on to make this roll as a trained roll, since such a thing would be in his background?
Scrolls are costly, single-use items. If I were a wizard, I certainly wouldn't let my apprentice practice on them. So as a judge, I might give a wizard's apprentice a bump or two up the dice chain for prior experience, but I don't think I'd grant them a 20-sider for an occupation that they seem to have failed at or gotten fired from.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by GnomeBoy » Sun Jun 25, 2017 10:03 am

Bilgewriggler wrote:
Zorrah wrote:On the same kind of topic, another kind of silly question about how that works. It does have Wizard's apprentice as a level 0 character occupation. Would a character that rolled that as a level 0 be able to go on to make this roll as a trained roll, since such a thing would be in his background?
Scrolls are costly, single-use items. If I were a wizard, I certainly wouldn't let my apprentice practice on them. So as a judge, I might give a wizard's apprentice a bump or two up the dice chain for prior experience, but I don't think I'd grant them a 20-sider for an occupation that they seem to have failed at or gotten fired from.
I think I agree. Skills that are part of your profession you roll with a d20, and things you're not familiar with are a d10.

While an apprentice should have familiarity with spellcasting, if they've advanced as some other Class they don't get a free Wizard Class ability -- just like a squire to a knight is not going to get Mighty Deeds unless they, too, become a Warrior.

I'd suppose they should have some sort of edge, but I'd think that edge could take many forms... They get a larger die (d12? d14?), or they add their Int Mod and Luck Mod, perhaps. Maybe they have a single spell that they get a d16 with, while others are the d12 or even just the 'standard' d10.

Thinking about it, I think the 'slight edge' should just apply to one or two spells at most, in general. Maybe they get two if they roll them randomly, but only one if they choose it...?
Gnome Boy • DCC playtester @ DDC 35 Feb '11. • Beta DL 2111, 7AM PT, 8 June 11.
Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com

Kuruz, Mendicant, N • AC 8, 4 hp • R-1, F0, W0 • S9 A8 S9 P11 I16 L8
Zend, Grave Digger, L • AC 9, 3 hp • R-1, F0, W1 • S14 A6 S9 P13 I13 L6
Mercer, Outlaw, N • AC 12, 2 hp • R0, F-1, W1 • S7 A9 S6 P13 I8 L13
Dejah, Ropemaker, C • AC 10, 2 hp • R0, F1, W-1 • S8 A12 S15 P7 I11 L7

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Re: Attempting to cast spells untrained is an automatic fail

Post by doktorgrym » Mon Aug 21, 2017 12:04 am

For a Wizards Apprentice, I would allow a full D20+ INT mod plus any lucky sign. They could also burn luck if they roll well enough to avoid the enhanced "natural 1" range.

They would not add level, nor would they be able to spell burn.

However, I would increase the spell failure range for critical failure as follows.

Add the level of the spell to the base critical failure value of 1, thus for a level 1 spell a D20 roll of 1 or 2 would end in a natural 1 roll, or for a 4th level spell a roll D20 roll of 1-5 would equal a natural 1 roll. They can not burn luck to change this larger "1" range.

I view it this way, you can play with fire (1D10) untrained or you can play with FIRE (1D20) with just enough knowledge to be extremely dangerous(to yourself and others) but not as a full-fledged Wizard with their access to spell burn and their other abilities.

KSW

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