super secret project/gary con
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- Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).
Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
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- Far-Sighted Wanderer
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Re: super secret project/gary con
I'm not so much liking the sound of that. Too much like Bennies in Savage Worlds... chasing off any inconvenience/consequence/challenge... though that might have been our GM handing out WAY too man of them.Jim Skach wrote:1) Luck is the new black. It's everything. It is a luck-based mechanic that replaces clerical healing. Luck flows fast and loose to the point where there is a carousing mechanic for getting luck back...for all classes.
- Ravenheart87
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).
Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
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- catseye yellow
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Re: super secret project/gary con
raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?
- Ravenheart87
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Re: super secret project/gary con
There are only a few stores and they rarely sell anything besides mainstream stuff. And even if one of them managed to get it, it would be still cheaper from other places. Amazon has quite friendly shipping fees for hardcovers nowadays, even if it can be slow sometimes. Paizo is okay for small stuff, like adventures. BookDepository would be the best, but there's no DCC. NobleKnight is ridiculous. European stores are usually more expensive, so the lower shipping fees won't compensate. I have to pick carefully, where I get my stuff.catseye yellow wrote:raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?
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Re: super secret project/gary con
during the '90s i used to get my stuff from budimpesta since there was no brick and mortar store in belgrade (although there was one in novi sad) and amazon and its kin were just starting.Ravenheart87 wrote:There are only a few stores and they rarely sell anything besides mainstream stuff. And even if one of them managed to get it, it would be still cheaper from other places. Amazon has quite friendly shipping fees for hardcovers nowadays, even if it can be slow sometimes. Paizo is okay for small stuff, like adventures. BookDepository would be the best, but there's no DCC. NobleKnight is ridiculous. European stores are usually more expensive, so the lower shipping fees won't compensate. I have to pick carefully, where I get my stuff.catseye yellow wrote:raven, don't you have rpg brick and mortar stores in budapest? can't you order through them?
i usually these days get everything i need in pdf except for the core book, kickstarters (they killed me on the shipping though) and harley stroh adventures (that i pick up every time i visit london or further afield).
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Re: super secret project/gary con
I understand but is not a few pages. The chapter that apparently won't get changed are the smaller chapters. Character creation, Magic and the Gamemaster chapters look like it will get completely overhauled.Ravenheart87 wrote:Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).
Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
See it this way, if you are going to pay shipping anyways for the Lankhmar setting book, why not make it a full rule book? When playing you will only need to carry the Lankhmar book if that's what you are playing instead of 2 books and future customer that don't plan to get DCC but want the Lankhmar stuff may still get a taste of the DCC rules (even if it's modified to fit the setting).
- catseye yellow
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Re: super secret project/gary con
but everything you need to play lankhmar adventures is already in the dcc core book. just forget about mercurial magic (as i do often enough), disallow demihumans and clerics and proclaim that everyone can regain luck by spending cash carousing. it is more or less about cutting stuff out than putting more in.ajtheronin wrote:I understand but is not a few pages. The chapter that apparently won't get changed are the smaller chapters. Character creation, Magic and the Gamemaster chapters look like it will get completely overhauled.Ravenheart87 wrote:Nope. I don't want to buy another core book because of a few pages of changes just for Lankhmar. Especially with american shipping prices.ajtheronin wrote:Don't get me wrong the changes sound awesome but there are some significant changes. At this point we will be only using chapters 2, 3, 4 and some of the appendixes as is (and there are elements on chapter 4 like turn unholy that won't be used at all), the rest will have some significant rules changes (not omissions but changes).
Wouldn't it be better to have a core Lankhmar rulebook instead?
See it this way, if you are going to pay shipping anyways for the Lankhmar setting book, why not make it a full rule book? When playing you will only need to carry the Lankhmar book if that's what you are playing instead of 2 books and future customer that don't plan to get DCC but want the Lankhmar stuff may still get a taste of the DCC rules (even if it's modified to fit the setting).
also, let's wait for the video of the dark master delivering beautiful yet terrible news.
- Ravenheart87
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Re: super secret project/gary con
My thoughts exactly. It would be like some people writing just another retroclone for whatever D&D, because they have a handful of house rules. Even if the changes take 32 pages, it's not worth writing a new rulebook just for Lankhmar. A setting book/box is enough.catseye yellow wrote:but everything you need to play lankhmar adventures is already in the dcc core book. just forget about mercurial magic (as i do often enough), disallow demihumans and clerics and proclaim that everyone can regain luck by spending cash carousing. it is more or less about cutting stuff out than putting more in.
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- finarvyn
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Re: super secret project/gary con
I think it may be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, depending upon how different the rules turn out to be. If you put the new rules into a full-out rulebook, folks will complain about having to re-buy the rules. If you make a boxed set with only the rules changes in it, folks will complain about having to buy a rulebook in addition to the boxed set.
It really will come down to the quantity of changes, I suspect.
It really will come down to the quantity of changes, I suspect.
Marv / Finarvyn
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"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
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DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
- catseye yellow
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Re: super secret project/gary con
i think that dcc lankhmar is primarily aimed at us loyal dcc fans who already own the rulebook if there are converts thanks to the magnetic pull of fritz leiber's amazing fiction than it is boon to all of us.
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Yeah that's tricky.finarvyn wrote:I think it may be a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" thing, depending upon how different the rules turn out to be. If you put the new rules into a full-out rulebook, folks will complain about having to re-buy the rules. If you make a boxed set with only the rules changes in it, folks will complain about having to buy a rulebook in addition to the boxed set.
It really will come down to the quantity of changes, I suspect.
On the one hand, I don't see a lot of stuff in DCC being very Lankhmarish at all (clerics and cleric spells, most if not all wizard spells, most if not all attendant rules, demihumans etc.) but then they might choose to be less faithful to the setting and allow a lot of DCC stuff (like TSR did.) Personally, if the Lankhmar book was independent of the DCC core rules I'd be happier as I don't play and don't particularly like DCC by itself. But then again, I am a Lankhmar nuts, so I'd buy it anyway
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Re: super secret project/gary con
I think that the modules have a very Lankhmar-ish feel to me, but a lot of that may be Doug's artwork. I haven't taken the time to examine modules to see what sort of "conversion" would be needed to run them in Nehwon (You pointed out a lot of the biggies -- no or limited clerics, no demi-humans, wizard magic mostly ritualistic, and so on.) but my "gut feel" is that many of them would fit well with the setting once a few tweaks are made.rabindranath72 wrote:I don't see a lot of stuff in DCC being very Lankhmarish at all (clerics and cleric spells, most if not all wizard spells, most if not all attendant rules, demihumans etc.) but then they might choose to be less faithful to the setting and allow a lot of DCC stuff (like TSR did.)
Having no clerics, for example, doesn't have to change the module's mechanics. Only the fear-factor when undead are encountered. You find one, you run.
I think the hope would be to attract both kinds of fans -- those who are DCC nuts and those who are Lankhmar nuts. I'm not sure how much those two groups overlap, which is one reason why having a "DCC Lankhmar" rulebook might be a solid idea. Having the Lankhmar stuff without a core DCC rulebook might be annoying.rabindranath72 wrote:Personally, if the Lankhmar book was independent of the DCC core rules I'd be happier as I don't play and don't particularly like DCC by itself. But then again, I am a Lankhmar nuts, so I'd buy it anyway
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
- catseye yellow
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Re: super secret project/gary con
i would disagree about lankhmar magic being ritualistic. for example, mouser slays the duke during torture session in the unholy grail. also, hristomilo obviously casts choking cloud and animal summoning :p
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Yeah well I suppose it depends on what's your definition of "ritual." To me a ritual is a spell that takes a very long time to cast, and uses various and possibly complex components etc. Hristomilo apparently takes quite long to cast his spell, and with a very complex apparatus. Mouser casts a spell while he is being tortured! Definitely not possible under any D&D rules set.catseye yellow wrote:i would disagree about lankhmar magic being ritualistic. for example, mouser slays the duke during torture session in the unholy grail. also, hristomilo obviously casts choking cloud and animal summoning :p
"Ice magic" seems to take a lot of women to cast, for apparently a prolonged time.
The closest spell to D&D magic I recall is the one cast by a lord of Quarmall (a sort of lightning bolt or magic missile.) But in general Lankhmar magic doesn't look like D&D magic at all.
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Re: super secret project/gary con
i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Sounds like a lot of arguing.catseye yellow wrote:i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.
No doubt that magic in a Lankhmar setting will require some tweaks. It's not flash-bang as per D&D and it's not corrupting the way DCC magic is done. It doesn't exactly fit with either system.
One of a couple things will have to happen:
(1) The writers will have to leave canon behind a little in order to allow characters to be spellcasters during adventures.
(2) The writers will stick to canon and primary spells will be cast by NPCs or "behind the scenes" rather than in action.
It's not like this is the only setting with such issues. If you read Conan stories you note a lack of flash-bang magic, yet the Conan RPGs on the market seem to allow for PC spellcasters.
Marv / Finarvyn
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
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Re: super secret project/gary con
...What if casting magic in Lankhmar has more to do with "individual technique" than the nature of the spell, per se?
For example, the women of the north casting in a 'ritual' is simply because that's how they know how to cast -- whereas someone else could potentially get the same effect by, say, snapping their fingers.
It's like, for me to do my taxes myself would be a major undertaking with lots of paraphernalia and a lot of time wasted correcting myself along the way -- whereas my wife with her accounting degree can do it much faster and more intuitively.
It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it. That's what gets results.
For example, the women of the north casting in a 'ritual' is simply because that's how they know how to cast -- whereas someone else could potentially get the same effect by, say, snapping their fingers.
It's like, for me to do my taxes myself would be a major undertaking with lots of paraphernalia and a lot of time wasted correcting myself along the way -- whereas my wife with her accounting degree can do it much faster and more intuitively.
It's not what you do, it's the way that you do it. That's what gets results.
...
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- catseye yellow
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Re: super secret project/gary con
i think that mercurial magic is gone, spell esclation is still there with more outre misfires and corruptions gone. i think that there will be some taint as connected to magic (remember hristomilo?).finarvyn wrote:Sounds like a lot of arguing.catseye yellow wrote:i would argue that dcc magic is also removed a few steps from garden variety d&d.
No doubt that magic in a Lankhmar setting will require some tweaks. It's not flash-bang as per D&D and it's not corrupting the way DCC magic is done. It doesn't exactly fit with either system.
One of a couple things will have to happen:
(1) The writers will have to leave canon behind a little in order to allow characters to be spellcasters during adventures.
(2) The writers will stick to canon and primary spells will be cast by NPCs or "behind the scenes" rather than in action.
It's not like this is the only setting with such issues. If you read Conan stories you note a lack of flash-bang magic, yet the Conan RPGs on the market seem to allow for PC spellcasters.
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Re: super secret project/gary con
Does the adventure out now have the new (in progress) rules for carousing and such?
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Re: super secret project/gary con
i think not. it has a new patron and means to transfer your dcc characters into another world.
i hope we can get soon some q&a with curtis, stroh and others that will provide some appetizers for a feast to come.
i hope we can get soon some q&a with curtis, stroh and others that will provide some appetizers for a feast to come.