Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ideas

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AQuebman
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Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ideas

Post by AQuebman »

So I decided to try my hand at DM'ing outside of a module for the first time in DCC. I am trying to start with a funnel and my first idea was to base it around a huge fire breaking out in the parties home town. The fire is being caused by a small fire elemental that got loose from a visiting wizard and has gone on a rampage.

Now my idea is that the party will be split between trying to do something about the elemental and saving the poor townspeople. My thoughts were to run the Elemental as is but if somebody douses it with water to basically stun it for a few rounds and reduce it's HP/defenses to a 1/4 of what they are normally thus making it killable by 0 levels.

I think for the fire i'll do the traditional roll a D8 and the fires all spread in that direction one square. To jump through a flaming square without damage will be a DC 16 reflex and after 2 rounds in the smoke someone must make a DC 16 fort save or take 1d6 nonlethal.

My issue is that I am a little worried this won't be very threatening. I'm also thinking i'll have to do more then just this to really fill out a funnel but being my first time setting this up I wanted to do something memorable. My players are all PF fuddie duddies and i'm trying to convert them to the dark side.

It's also going to be a rather small set of people 8 PC's total because I only have 2 players but I wanted to make it suitable for a bigger group in case somebody else joins and tweak things as needed. I figured if it got really out of hand I could offer saved townspeople as replacement PC's.

Any thoughts suggestions or assistance is certainly appreciated. Help me indoctrinate a new collection of Goodman Cultists :twisted:
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Skyscraper
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by Skyscraper »

I'm no game designer, but I've run a short (about 12-15 session long) homebrew DCC campaign including a 5-6 session long funnel. Here are some thoughts.
AQuebman wrote:So I decided to try my hand at DM'ing outside of a module for the first time in DCC. I am trying to start with a funnel and my first idea was to base it around a huge fire breaking out in the parties home town. The fire is being caused by a small fire elemental that got loose from a visiting wizard and has gone on a rampage.
Nice intro!
Now my idea is that the party will be split between trying to do something about the elemental and saving the poor townspeople. My thoughts were to run the Elemental as is but if somebody douses it with water to basically stun it for a few rounds and reduce it's HP/defenses to a 1/4 of what they are normally thus making it killable by 0 levels.
I think you overestimate funnel characters. Firstly, I believe you assume that they will think about throwing galons of water at it. That seems logical, but they might well have no idea that the creature's mechanics will be so significantly affected. Secondly, if they see that throwing so much water weakens it so much, it's likely that they'll think they can kill it that way, and they'll simply continue the same strategy. However, even if they were to indeed catch on that throwing water, and then attacking it, is the way to go, IMO many will die to the fire elemental, even if he's much weaker. If you're serene with an early PC purge, then it's fine of course.

I would approach this scene with one, or more, of the following suggestions:

1) design your own fire elemental, perhaps inspired from the DCC book, but much weaker. You don't have to call it "an elemental" if you don't want to. The players wont know what it is anyway. Remember that 3 HP damage is enough, on average, to kill a funnel character. And that funnel characters have +0 attack bonus and 10 AC, on average. You can hit them easily and if the elemental survives a few rounds, it's likely he'll kill a PC every other round.
2) decide what water does. If it damages the elemental, so be it. Let it die to the water then if enough is poured on it.
3) give the elemental a weakness. For example, perhaps it can be controlled if someone goes back to the magic circle where it was conjured? (Is the wizard dead?) Or perhaps #1 (water) is the weakness? Or perhaps it can be un-summoned in some way? Solution #3 allows you to have the elemental be stronger, forcing the PCs to look for other solutions than direct confrontation. Especially at the funnel level, this is a fun solution IMO.
4) Keep an open mind to a player solution you had not anticipated during the game. Perhaps they'll lure it over a wooden bridge that spans a river, and you can then describe that the bridge catches on fire and will break, if only the elemental might stay on it another minute at most... Maybe some heroic PC will sacrifice himself to gain the time.
I think for the fire i'll do the traditional roll a D8 and the fires all spread in that direction one square. To jump through a flaming square without damage will be a DC 16 reflex and after 2 rounds in the smoke someone must make a DC 16 fort save or take 1d6 nonlethal.

My issue is that I am a little worried this won't be very threatening. I'm also thinking i'll have to do more then just this to really fill out a funnel but being my first time setting this up I wanted to do something memorable. My players are all PF fuddie duddies and i'm trying to convert them to the dark side.
Personally I think your overthinking the mechanics and should look into the story to catch your players' attention.

For the mechanics, I assume you wish to play with a battle map since you're talking about squares and all. Have you considered no battle map? Anyway, I wont press this.

I would consider a more organic feel to the scene. For example, describe how the fire spreads generally, the threats that result (e.g. a house about to collapse, some PCs cornered by the flames, etc...) and see where that leads.

For the story, you haven't discussed it much, so perhaps you simply have more foundation. But I'd look into: who is this wizard who conjured the elemental? What is he doing in town? Who are the NPCs in town that might interact with the PCs? Are there enemies there, or thieves that might want to take advantage of the situation? What happens when the fire is doused and the elemental is killed?

I find the rogue elemental to be a great idea, full of possibilities. But it seems more like one encounter or scene, not an adventure in itself.

Quick idea to build on the elemental scene: perhaps the wizard was hired to conjure an elemental, but was not told the truth on its purpose. The story is that local thieves, a small group of 4-5 invididuals (if its a small town), want vengeance against the burgomaster because he plans on sending for the constable, in a nearby bigger city, to have them put to justice (which might mean that they hang in the end). They want to set an example, to continue to bully the townspeaple, and thus they hired the wizard to to set the elemental against the burgomaster, lying to him and telling him that they operate a forge and wanted to build some special weapons. When told where he was to send the elemental, the wizard refused, and was killed by the thieves. The elemental indeed put the mayor's house on fire, but the thieves then lost control over it, and it went beyond its initial target, and the thieves don't know how to stop it. They hide until it's gone, hoping no one will find out about them.

After the elemental is taken care of and the fire is doused, the town realises that the burgomaster is dead. They vote to have a ad hoc militia formed, and the PCs, due to their actions agaisnt the elemental and fire, are elected/forced into that position. The citizens want to know where the elemental comes from, scared that others might follow.

The PCs should then find clues to lead them to the thieves. Presumably the elemental's traces can be found back to where the wizard lived. The wizard might have notes mentioning how he got hired and for what purpose ("but there is no forge in this town?!"). Perhaps the thieves left clues behind that might incriminate them, a weapon in the dead wizard's body, or something equally obvious: hey, things got out of hand, and these lowly thieves are not so bright, they panicked and fled!

There could also be, in the burgomaster's house, a chest that survived the fire, with noted in it, mentioning that he would send for the constable, to put the thieves to justice.

In the end, the PCs could have a confrontation with the thieves, to try to arrest them - or kill them? Up to them I guess. The thieves could have one level 1 or level 2 leader, and the rest could simply be level 0's like the PCs.

The thieve's hideout can be a cool place, an abandonned temple in the forest - perhaps some relics of old can be found there. Or perhaps the thieves fled there when the heat increases, and they end up in a placer still haunted. Or trapped. Or where a demonic cult used to hide - and a patron book happens to be there, an old leather bound book, but with its pages in surprisingly good condition. But anyone approaching it feels it skin tingle, and thinks he sees shadows move just outside of his vision...
It's also going to be a rather small set of people 8 PC's total because I only have 2 players but I wanted to make it suitable for a bigger group in case somebody else joins and tweak things as needed. I figured if it got really out of hand I could offer saved townspeople as replacement PC's.

Any thoughts suggestions or assistance is certainly appreciated. Help me indoctrinate a new collection of Goodman Cultists :twisted:
I think that 8 PCs is plenty, just avoid strong opposition. One enemy is enough if he manages to kill one PC. Simple things will be very challenging for level 0's.
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Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by jozxyqk »

I haven't designed a funnel myself, but my sense is that they are all about location. So an abstract chase of a fire elemental will work a lot better if you "funnel" the PCs into a particular locale where they have to face particular obstacles. That way each obstacle (trap, ravine, starving hyena, flaming altar) winnows down their numbers a little bit, and they get to work on a bunch of small problems using their meager equipment and abilities. See, e.g., Portal Under the Stars and Starless Sea.
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Skyscraper
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by Skyscraper »

I should add that the very first scene of my homebrew funnel occured in a barn where the PCs were hired to resolve a mystery, and 10 minutes into the game the barn was set on fire (and the doors, blocked from outside) and the PCs needed to escape while a few (3?) archers waited outside for those that might get out. None died to the fire, but a 2-3 died to the archers. It was a fun scene.
Maledict Brothbreath, level 4 warrior, STR 16 (+2) AGI 7 (-1) STA 12 PER 9 INT 10 LUCK 15 (+1), AC: 16 Refl: +1 Fort: +2 Will: +1; lawful; Armor of the Lion and Lily's Blade.

Brother Sufferus, level 4 cleric, STR 13 (+1) AGI 15 (+1) STA 11 PER 13 (+1) INT 10 LUCK 9, AC: 11 (13 if wounded, 15 if down to half hit points), Refl: +3 Fort: +2 Will: +3, chaotic, Robe of the Faith, Scourge of the Maimed One, Darts of Pain.
AQuebman
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by AQuebman »

Thanks for the responses guys I appreciate it. Sky you hit on the biggest thing is that I have only just now started to built beyond the initial encounter with the fire so that is indeed an unfinished oasis of possibilities.

Its starting in Hightop which is a thorp of only about 25 people but is considered one of the most beautiful areas around so it is commonly visited as a getaway by weary travelers. The only NPC i've really thought up is an elderly former fighter named Radick who spends his days telling tales and recruiting youngsters he sees have traits to be gifted travelers/adventurers. The PC's are amongst this crop which gives an easy intro and explains why they all are together and know each other etc...

Radick is the NPC who I planned on having awaken them "thus saving them from fiery doom" and then allowing them to piece together what to do from there. There's a big well in the center of town which provides the towns water and I plan on pointing that out plainly to push that as a possible method of either helping townsfolk or if they think of it, using it vs the creature terrorizing the town. On the flames, I admit I struggle sometimes to get away from my PF days and worrying about specific mechanics. My only issue with being totally free form is I want to present with a real pressing feeling to my players where each turn has consequences and the only way I could think of doing that was giving them limited time to save each of the townsfolk but maybe I could just keep that abstract and only go into details if they personally enter a home?

I am leaning towards redesigning the elemental style creature to be killable with normal weapons and basing it around say the snake in Portal under the stars statistically, but keeping some of its fiery traits like it's heat aura etc... I also planned on running it so that the creature was enraged at the wizard who summoned it and would set the town ablaze and then if it hadn't been stopped it would return to it's native plane having satiated it's anger.

That brings me to the summoner of the creature. My leaning was towards a naive young wizard who came across a scroll that was much too powerful for him to handle and in his stupidity he summoned the creature but couldn't handle controlling it. My idea was surviving townspeople would point out where they saw the creature come from and have the PC's investigate a small ritual circle in the woods outside of town where there now lays a very charred and heavily corrupted wizard who is very weak but alive. Then it presents the players with the quandary of how to deal with this wizard and could possibly even lead to them recruiting the young man if things turn out that way.

I haven't had an opportunity to work any further than that to build up a deeper story. Heck I might keep it simple and then present some other adventuring opportunities. Not every adventure ends with a BBEG at the end, sometimes it's an immature wizard making a critical mistake.

Assistance as always is appreciated and I just might steal your little mini thief related write up in the future. I like that concept quite a bit. I want to keep the funnel relatively short like Portal under the stars is so I don't want to produce too much for this first funnel but I think what i'll do is just design different adventures and dole out exp as the book suggests and when they hit 1st level they hit 1st level, not that much has to change.
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by AQuebman »

Skyscraper wrote:I should add that the very first scene of my homebrew funnel occured in a barn where the PCs were hired to resolve a mystery, and 10 minutes into the game the barn was set on fire (and the doors, blocked from outside) and the PCs needed to escape while a few (3?) archers waited outside for those that might get out. None died to the fire, but a 2-3 died to the archers. It was a fun scene.

How did you handle the fire? Did you just describe it spreading? I guess i'm having difficulty of how to present where it's spreading to and what's off limits and whats not etc... If it's just being descriptive and describing the place going up in flames and extrapolating that based on character action I think I can do that it just feels a tad awkward admittedly.
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by GnomeBoy »

AQuebman wrote:
Skyscraper wrote:I should add that the very first scene of my homebrew funnel occured in a barn where the PCs were hired to resolve a mystery, and 10 minutes into the game the barn was set on fire (and the doors, blocked from outside) and the PCs needed to escape while a few (3?) archers waited outside for those that might get out. None died to the fire, but a 2-3 died to the archers. It was a fun scene.

How did you handle the fire? Did you just describe it spreading? I guess i'm having difficulty of how to present where it's spreading to and what's off limits and whats not etc... If it's just being descriptive and describing the place going up in flames and extrapolating that based on character action I think I can do that it just feels a tad awkward admittedly.
If you don't mind me chiming in, I'd say approach it from the perspective of what is most flammable?

If a barn is on fire, the dry hay may well be where the fire spreads from first. The wood of the external part of the structure may be damp (at least on the outside, maybe) but the whole point of a barn is to keep the stuff kept there dry. Fire likes dry.

When if comes to other buildings, same thing: fuel supplies are going to light up the easiest, firewood, oils, etc. If there is a large gap between buildings, the one on fire will have to really get going for the sparks to be more and more likely to make the jump.

If there is wind, have the fire drift slowly in that direction, mostly. Five feet per round? 1d10-5 feet per round? Whatever sounds workable and right to you...

And don't underestimate NPC panic working to spread the fire: "Gaaaahhh! My cart is on fire" (recklessly drives cart to 'safety' but crashes into another building) or "Gaaah! I"M ON FIRE!" (runs around causing more points to be set alight).

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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by cjoepar »

Some general comments:

I design all my adventures and once you get the hang of it, it's not too hard. Don't worry about the possibility of making an encounter too hard - in DCC it's up to the players to figure that out on their own and then run away, or get creative. I have designed two funnels so far, and I played the first one a few times by myself to see if the difficulty of the encounters was where I thought it would be and then I went with it. It turned out to be pretty close. Remember, the funnel can be extremely dicey, depending on how good or bad you and the party are rolling, so don't feel like you failed if you wipe them out or if the opposite happens and hardly anyone dies. Just be fair and give them a chance to defeat or avoid every encounter and most players will be very happy with it. In post funnel adventures I deliberately put encounters in that the party cannot deal with using brute force (like a creature that cannot be harmed by non-magical weapons when the party has no magical weapons). They either have to run away, or they have to think outside the box a little.

Only 8 characters, huh? I'd suggest you let them each start with 5 or 6. It's not really much harder to run 1 or 2 more, and this will give you a lot more cushion. Just put a cap on the number that you will allow to kick to first level, and if they have more than that survive, they become henchmen.

I wouldn't get too wrapped up in worrying about the mechanics of how the fire spreads. Like others have said, simple is better. But one of the objectives might be to save some townspeople who will be able to help stop it from spreading.

Some other thoughts for additional encounters that came to mind as I was reading your original post:
1. Thieves. I thought about thieves too, but my thought was maybe they were not associated with the elemental summoning, and were just being opportunistic. During the chaos of the fire, they decide to try to steal from the offering basket at the hamlet's church. Stop them and the local Friar may help the party out at some point in the future. Or maybe a clan of goblins was passing by, and now there are a couple groups of them loose in town looting and hurting people.
2. Magical traps. What if the summoner had some magical traps in place to protect him while he was summoning the elemental and they need to be overcome by the party before they can reach him? Maybe there's an animated scarecrow that he left on the path between his summoning circle and town who will attack anyone approaching along the path. Maybe everyone in town knows that the summoner was collecting pine cones the day before the adventure and the party has some other clue that enables them to figure out that anyone carrying a pine cone can pass a magic glyph without setting it off.
3. Another entity. What if when the summoner summoned the elemental, he accidently attracted the attention of an evil spirit who attacked him? Maybe that's part of why the binding failed. Maybe the evil spirit is now loose and the party also needs to destroy it (or them).
4. What if someone's barn caught fire and several horses are now rampaging through the streets in terror. Or a bull.
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by Raven_Crowking »

If you are going to do an event-based funnel, you may wish to include something in the funnel that shifts the event completely. You think that it is simply dealing with a fire (or relatively minor fire elemental), say, but it turns out that new fire elementals keep popping up, and will continue to do so unless you can close the conduit to the plane of fire they are coming from.....
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AQuebman
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Re: Funnel built around a big fire....could use help and ide

Post by AQuebman »

Thank you all for the tips and advice, they will all be going under advisement. I ended up getting bumped up and asked to DM today so I may have to turn to a module for our first adventure and turn this into something later on down the line or maybe a future campaign if people are interested. Again thank you all for your assistance.
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