Death in DCC -- advice plea.

[Raven_Crowking]

I find ways to split those uber-parties. In my games, a lot of players have multiple characters, but they tend to be off doing their own things.

[jozxyqk]

My sense is more than one PC per party member--or at least largeish parties--is assumed in at least the official modules. In contrast to the 4-5 member party that became the rule in 3rd and 4th editions. See Doom of the Savage Kings (6-12 first level characters); Emerald Enchanter (for 8-10 second levels); Jewels of the Carnifex (6-10 3rd levels).

We've got 4 players with 2 PCs apiece. For a while they had 0-level lackeys trailing along to fill holes, but that became pretty logistically cumbersome. Now we just roll up zeros when a "vacancy" actually opens up.

Though I can see why people would want to stick with one character per player for simplicity's sake.

[Rostranor]

The PHB talks about running two characters,
Pg 77 "In higher-level play, when each player has no more than two characters, use individual initiative by character. Roll once for each character and apply all appropriate modifiers."

I found it to be much better RPing wise when the players each had one character to play and we left the other funnel survivors in the wings as a repo-depot. Also with the group initiative each players turn was taking too long and having each character roll their own initiative was a logistical nightmare for me. Though in our last session I auto rolled their initiative in the Initiative Board app. Not sure that I like taking the opportunity to roll dice away from the players though.

[cjoepar]

I like to keep party size in the 6 to 9 character range. I have found that if you have parties with fewer than 6 characters, things tend to get very swingy, and a stretch of bad dice for the players or good dice for the monsters can easily wipe the party out. And if parties get bigger than 9 PC's, it tends to take so long to get through encounters that you find yourself in gaming sessions that only have 4 or 5 encounters and people get a little bored waiting for their character's turn.

[oncelor]

We've been using party rather than individual initiative for almost a year. Basically all the characters act in whatever order they want in three phases: pre-movement stuff (mainly spells or missile fire), movement, and post-movement stuff (spells or missile fire for characters who didn't cast or fire already, and melee). The monsters use the same three phases. I either nominate some character to roll initiative on behalf of the party (e.g. if one of the characters opens a door behind which there are monsters, he rolls initiative) or the party can nominate once character to roll on its behalf. It's really sped up combat.

[Skyscraper]

We have a party size of 4 level 1 PCs, one for each player. They were picked from the surviving level zeros (each player had 1 or 2 surivors, perhaps one had 3). I let the players decide how many PCs they would level up to level 1. They opted for one PC per player because perhaps because they felt immersion would be more easily achieved. I homebrew my game and combat is not an important part of the game, although it occurs relatively frequently, so the number of PCs present is no important.

We've been using party rather than individual initiative for almost a year. Basically all the characters act in whatever order they want in three phases: pre-movement stuff (mainly spells or missile fire), movement, and post-movement stuff (spells or missile fire for characters who didn't cast or fire already, and melee). The monsters use the same three phases. I either nominate some character to roll initiative on behalf of the party (e.g. if one of the characters opens a door behind which there are monsters, he rolls initiative) or the party can nominate once character to roll on its behalf. It's really sped up combat.

This is an interesting take on speeding up combat. This is what I do in my online D&D game that's been going on for 4 years now because it's much easier to have players play in any order all at the same time before the monsters go (in fact, I roll initiative for both the players and the monsters at the outset; then those players that win initiative get to act on round 1, and those that did not win initiative do not act on round 1; then the monsters act on round 1; and then for round 2 and all subsequent rounds all players act first, and monsters second). This greatly simplifies online play and if anyone thinks initiative or waiting for combat orders is long in online games, I would recommend this system.

One issue that results from this however, with all monsters acting at the "same time", is that focus fire can take out a PC real quick. So while the PCs do not hesitate to focus fire themselves, as a DM I try to bring in as much RP reasons as can be to avoid it myself against the PCs. Of course, some opponents do focus fire sometimes, but I'll rarely have all monsters gang up on the cleric and take him down, for example - which would be the most sound tactical option if I were to play a board game for example.

Whereas, with initiative on average allowing alternating between PCs and monsters, PCs may have options to heal or otherwise help their comrades that are in danger of dying.

[Tortog]

As far as the OP is concerned> Nothing on page 93 (Recovering the body) mentions luck burn; furthermore, nothing on p.95 (Luck Burn) says anything about using luck burn for recovering the body. It simply states under the second bullet point that it may be used for other rolls. So the real question is: Do you want to let the player do this? Especially knowing that the rest of the players will hold you to the same standard for their characters... for this game and others unless you prohibit at the start of a game. The general theme of your posts suggests that you are not at all interested in the "superhero with sword" ideas of other versions of D&D; so in that case rule no. I would then bring it up for general discussion with the group so that everyone is comfortable with how things will proceed. If you rule that it is possible for him to burn luck on this roll, then I think that he should be allowed to roll even after the game has ended... p. 95 under burning luck says that they can declare before or after the roll, but again it is up to you whether or not it has been 'too long' and the player can just roll up new character.

When you consider that the time needed to roll up and introduce new character vs. finding a reason to revive an existing character from death isn't that different; I'd go with the option that keeps player happy and interested... BUT My first reaction to such an email would be to sop up the drool from my key board as I typed up a message that read:

Storyteller: Your ghostly soul hovers over the mangled remains of your life as you long to feel the blood rushing through your veins again. From next to your misty visage a squeaky voice says the following: "SO, Just how badly do you want it?"

You turn and see that there is an Imp fluttering a few feet to your left. (and if they take the deal then the character gets possessed by a devil/ evil spirit for random intervals any time the character fails a Willpower save... this part is kept secret until after the character figures out what has been causing the increasing number of black-outs they've been having...)

I agree with the others who posted about Restore Vitality spell... it completely eliminates the fear of 'gimped-retirees' unless you disallow spell, or modify it somehow. Of course, you could eliminate the whole problem by simply not allowing the recover the body rule in further games.

And don't forget to role play! If Holy Father Pedro and Wee Man the Mighty have become some sort of nigh unstoppable duo, Bad Guys and Bad Guy Factions should take notice. Tempt them with evil (but powerful) artifacts. Or show them that you're OLD SCHOOL... sic some Grimtooth's Traps on em.

MMMmmm... crunch!!! Grimmtooth....

Lastly and shamelessly The CCD offers up some options creatures and mutations that have the ability to drain off and use the Luck from the PC's; which can be a handy way for Storyteller/GM's to deal with overly lucky Halflings and Thief types.

[Johann]

I roll initiative for both the players and the monsters at the outset; then those players that win initiative get to act on round 1, and those that did not win initiative do not act on round 1; then the monsters act on round 1; and then for round 2 and all subsequent rounds all players act first, and monsters second).

This is a great idea and perfect for me!

I've been using group initiative, too, but I've never been 100% satisfied, as the individual modifiers cease to matter. With your method, I can have quick thieves getting the drop on monsters yet still have the simplicity and fun of group initiative.

(I also dig your perceptive comment on focus fire. Like you, I don't mind players coordinating like that -- and use this tactic sparingly with monsters.)

Best wishes & many thanks

Johann

[Skyscraper]

I roll initiative for both the players and the monsters at the outset; then those players that win initiative get to act on round 1, and those that did not win initiative do not act on round 1; then the monsters act on round 1; and then for round 2 and all subsequent rounds all players act first, and monsters second).

This is a great idea and perfect for me!

I've been using group initiative, too, but I've never been 100% satisfied, as the individual modifiers cease to matter. With your method, I can have quick thieves getting the drop on monsters yet still have the simplicity and fun of group initiative.

(I also dig your perceptive comment on focus fire. Like you, I don't mind players coordinating like that -- and use this tactic sparingly with monsters.)

Best wishes & many thanks

Johann

You're welcome, and thank you for the wishes

[Clangador]

I have my own question now. If a PC is killed by a crit and goes down they can make a roll to see if they are still alive when the body is rolled over? If so, what condition are they in?

[Raven_Crowking]

I would say that is up to the judge, and it probably depends very much on how they are killed. If a character is beheaded, for example, no amount of Luck will avail. From what I can tell, recovering the body applies always to being reduced to 0 hp, and that is the only guarantee you have.

[Clangador]

I would say that is up to the judge, and it probably depends very much on how they are killed. If a character is beheaded, for example, no amount of Luck will avail. From what I can tell, recovering the body applies always to being reduced to 0 hp, and that is the only guarantee you have.

That seems reasonable. I have limited experience running and playing DCC. (I've run the funnel adventure in the back of the book twice.) My perception of the game rules is that combat is rather deadly because every hit you take has 5 percent chance of being a critical. It is not long before a player character would take a critical hit and quite possibly die from it. It seems to me the death rate would be high and players would be rolling up a lot of new characters.

[Rostranor]

Which is why crits are modified for your luck. At any point if the result is dead, i would say there is no rollover of the body.

[Clangador]

Which is why crits are modified for your luck. At any point if the result is dead, i would say there is no rollover of the body.

Grokked.

I just wonder how many PCs are going to make it to 10th level without some crippling and/or deadly crit wiping them out. It seems statistically unlikely.

[Rostranor]

Lucky ones.

[Skyscraper]

I would say that is up to the judge, and it probably depends very much on how they are killed. If a character is beheaded, for example, no amount of Luck will avail. From what I can tell, recovering the body applies always to being reduced to 0 hp, and that is the only guarantee you have.

Player 1: "I roll my friend's body over".
Judge: "You do, but the head doesn't follow".
Player 2: "So, about my luck check..."