Goodman Games

Some Iconic monsters aren't in the DCC corebook. Anyone want to take a stab at them? How about these two to kick it off?

Lich
Beholder

I'm pretty sure the Beholder is WotC IP... which would explain it's absence.

Well I think the idea is to have new creatures and that the ones in the book are just a bit of a pointer to help start things off...

I love Beholders and Liches! Just imagine how much terror they could bring in DCC.

Ten eyes of magic powers from a high powered caster in this game! Anti Magic to boot.
Oh lordy.

My take on drow... probably a little over complicated.

Drokalv (normal): Init: +2; AC 17, MV 30, HD 1d8+1, Atk melee +1 (stone short swords 1d6+1) ranged +2 (small bows 1d4+poison); Act 1d20; SP: poison, spells, immune to sleep and charm, meld into rock; SV Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +2; AL C.

Drokalv are fey creatures of stone – 8’ tall and thin, drokalv use armor and weapons that they magical craft from stone. The weapons can be used by anyone, but the armor is proportioned in such a way as to be useless by all but the drokalv.

Drokalv use small bows with darts coated with a sleeping draught. On a successful hit, the victim must make a Fort DC 8 or become fatigued (-2 STR and DEX, no run or charge, vigorous action causes exhaustion after 1d4 rounds – (-6 STR and DEX; half speed)

Drokalv can cast up to two spells (Spell Check +2): Hand of Ice (DC 12 = 1d4 damage from cold, DC 16=2d4 damage from cold, DC 20 = 2d4+2 cold damage and armor or weapon is reduced in effectiveness by half; requires touch, REF save = half damage and no equipment damage) and Dazzle (DC 13 = dazzled for 1d4 rounds (-1 attacks, search and spot); DC 17 = dazzled for 1d4 rounds and dazed for 1d4 rounds (after dazzle wears off) unable to take any actions/no AC penalty; DC 21 = Blinded 1d4 rounds and dazed 1d4 rounds; REF save negates, affects all within 20’ radius)

Drokalv can pass into solid stone, though it takes a full turn for them to enter or leave. Once inside stone, they can move at their full movement.

How to create a lich in three easy steps:
1. Give him values for Hit Dice, Armour Class, attack, damage, initiative, move, saves.*
2. Cherry pick undead attributes from Table 9-5 and 9-6 that fit his theme.
3. Choose some nasty spells.

*If you're afraid of assigning numbers by guts, then you can base him on a Wizard character.

I think the Beholder 'Eye Tyrant' could be a patron

Beholders are one of the few monsters that truly came into existence with D&D (you won't find real-world beholder myths) - why not embrace DCC's Appendix N philosophy and also make a monster truly inspired by the Beholder's existence and make up something new?

I don't mean to sound rude by saying that, but lets just say it is becoming a pet peeve of mine to see people trying to turn DCC into D&D instead of just letting it be DCC.

One way to approach the idea is to make something like the Beholder unique. So for an example I read online once, the Beholder and the Eye of the Deep become the eyes of a god that was blinded. One eye fell to the earth and the other into the sea add centuries of festering hate, a few legends and a story hook and boom! You've got your appendix N feel.

GrayPumpkin wrote:One way to approach the idea is to make something like the Beholder unique. So for an example I read online once, the Beholder and the Eye of the Deep become the eyes of a god that was blinded. One eye fell to the earth and the other into the sea add centuries of festering hate, a few legends and a story hook and boom! You've got your appendix N feel.

This is an awesome idea!

TheNobleDrake wrote:Beholders are one of the few monsters that truly came into existence with D&D (you won't find real-world beholder myths) - why not embrace DCC's Appendix N philosophy and also make a monster truly inspired by the Beholder's existence and make up something new?

The thing is, monsters like orcs, mind flayers, beholders have become part of the modern mythology for RPG fans. They are instantly familar for most of us just just like a minotaur or dragon is. And I would argue there is nothing wrong with using monsters we are familiar with. In fact I think you need a good balance of both new monsters to keep the players intrigued and the old stand-bys to help the players relate to the world, to keep it "real" for them. Part of the reason Conan and Lord of the Rings work so well (in my opinion) is that their worlds feel very much like our own. From the monsters, to the landscape, to the races and countries themselves. With a familiar base, the weird stuff just seems that much more interesting.

In a campaign where fighting monsters is just a small portion of the game, using a list of completely unique monsters works much better because of how infrequently you encounter them. In a campaign where dungeon delving and fighting monsters is the focus, I think you need a mix of familiar monsters or it starts to feel like the DM is being different just for the sake of being different.

There are exceptions of course.

TheNobleDrake wrote:I don't mean to sound rude by saying that, but lets just say it is becoming a pet peeve of mine to see people trying to turn DCC into D&D instead of just letting it be DCC.

The problem is some of us actually want to play D&D but aren't happy with the current options. Then along comes DCC, which is built using a D&D base and we are intrigued. In fact the Appendix N from D&D is a prime a selling feature of this game, so it's only natural that D&D fans are attracted to it. For us, this is the game D&D should have been. I have to point out that if Joseph Goodman had the same attitude as yourself, and just let D&D be, this game wouldn't even exist. Let's face it, DCC is just one man's heavily house-ruled d20 D&D game. It's not like the DCC game just popped in to his head out of the blue one day after reading all the same inspirational material that Gary did way back when. No, DCC was created because Joseph Goodman was not happy with D&D as written and set out to create his own version, joining a long list of great tinkerers.

Likewise some of us are not entirely happy with DCC and want to tinker with it to make it the game we want to play. No reason that should be a pet peeve for you.

bholmes4 wrote:No reason that should be a pet peeve for you.

I think it is because my brain draws a few distinctions where they might not necessarily be - Joseph Goodman tinkered around with D&D until it became something "new," which is different to me from those that are trying to take his resulting game and tinker it back to D&D... especially, I think, it stands out as odd behavior in my mind because of how easy and affordable it was for me to collect the entirety of AD&D 2nd edition over the course of 1 month just last year - so I don't see any need for someone that liked old D&D to try and get that old D&D feel from anything other than old D&D.

I suppose that isn't incredibly reasonable, but let's just say that many quirks about gamers are famously unreasonable and leave it at that - it's not like I am going to swoop in on anybody's gaming session and take away their books for playing the game in a way I might not (or might and don't realize it) enjoy.

My guess is that a higher-level "iconic" monster should do something you don't expect, but at the same time that is "logical" according to the monster's story/legend and ecology. Hence the fact that they don't have standard stats that would soon become common knowledge among players. I have a couple of ideas about some ways this could be convey game-wise for a number of classic creatures un-stated right now. Maybe they'll appear somewhere in print someday...

I took a stab at converting the D&D 1e Beholder with the spirit of "monsters break the rules" (the text is from the original D&D stat block):

BEHOLDER
(EYE-TYRANT, SPHERE OF MANY EYES)

Init: +2
Atk: Bite +7 melee (2d4 damage) Eyes +9
AC: 16 / 12
HD: 5D7+40
MV: 5'
Act: 1d20 (+1 spell-like ability for each functioning eye)
SV: Fort +10, Ref +2, Will +12
AL: N

The beholder is most frequently found underground, although it infrequently will lair in desolate wildernesses. The globular body of this monster is supported by levitation, and it floats slowly about as it wills. Atop the sphere are 10 eyestalks, while in its central area are a great eleventh eye and a large mouth filled with pointed teeth. The body is protected by a hard chitinous covering. The creature’s eyestalks and eyes are also protected, although less well (thus the armor classes of 18 and 14 respectively). Because of its particular nature the beholder is able to withstand the loss of its eyestalks, these members are not computed as part of its hit point damage potential, and lost eyestalks will eventually grow back (1 week per lost member). The great central eye can withstand one-third this total, i.e. a beholder with 45 hit points eleventh eye can withstand 15 points before ceasing to function. Eyestalks take from 8 to 12 hit points each before being lost. The body of a beholder represents 75% of potential hit area, the central eye and the eyestalks 10% each, and the 10 small eyes 5%.

Eyes: The various eyes of a beholder each have a different function. Typically only the central eye, plus 1-4 of those on stalks are able to function considering that the attack is coming from an arc 90° before the monster. If attacks come from 180° double the number of eyestalks able to function, and for 270° or 360° triple or quadruple the number. Attacks from above enable all 10 eyestalks to function, but the central eye cannot. Roll 1d20+9 to attack with each eye, once the eye locks it's gaze players must make the appropriate saving throw to escape its gaze (except for eyes that blast damaging rays). The functions of each eye are as follows:

1.Charm person gaze: Players must roll their Will against a DC 12 each round this eye gazes at them or fall under control of the beholder. The beholder may only control one player at a time and it must remain in its gaze. Beholders will uses others to fight for them or lure them into its gaping mouth.
2.Charm monster spell gaze: Same as charm person, but the beholder may automatically control any monster.
3.Sleep spell gaze: Players must roll their Will against a DC 12 each round this eye gazes at them or fall asleep.
4.Telekinesis gaze: The beholder can lift anything it sees with this eye up to 2,500 gp in wt. (156 lbs.). It may hurl nearby objects at players with a +9 to hit. The damage caused by most objects is 1d6. If a player is targeted they must make a Ref save against a DC 12.
5.Flesh-stone gaze: Anyone within 10' of the gaze of this eye is turned to stone if they fail a Fort roll against a DC 12. Once removed from the gaze, they return to normal.
6.Disintegrate ray (5' range): Anyone target by this ray must make a Ref save against a DC 12 or permanently lose a body part! Roll to determine what they lose (note: if the body part is armored, they lose the armor instead): (1-2) weapon (3) hair (4) finger (5) ear (6) hand (7) arm (8) foot (9) leg (10) chunk of flesh equal to 1 point of Stamina.
7.Fear ray: Players must roll their Will against a DC 12 when this eye gazes at them or effectively lose morale.
8.Slow gaze: Players must roll their Fort against a DC 12 when this eye gazes at them or their movement is halved and action dice are reduced by -1d.
9.Energy ray (5' range): Anyone hit by this ray suffers 3d4 damage.
10.Death ray (5' range): Anyone hit by this ray must roll a Fort save against 12 or die!
11.Anti-magic gaze (30' range): Players must make a Ref save vs. a DC 12 to avoid this gaze. Spells cannot cast in this gaze, and magick weapons either become ordinary or cease to function.

Nature: The beholder is hateful, aggressive, and avaricious. They will usually attack immediately. If confronted by a particularly powerful party there is a 50% chance they will listen to negotiations — either to be bribed not to attack or to pay a ransom to not be attacked, depending on the strength of the opposing party. They can speak their own language as well as that tongue known to creatures from the abyss.

Remember, however, that the Beholder isn't "open content" and can't appear in any printed modules.

WotC hasn't allowed the Beholder to be used, although you could rename it and have something very similar....

My personal sentimental favorites are the froghemoth, vegepypmies, and other weird stuff from the very appendix N inspired "Expedition to Barrier Peaks" ADnD module.