An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

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TheNobleDrake
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An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by TheNobleDrake »

I was working out this post... probably almost 40 minutes, but I then decided I was being way to verbose and unclear as to why I was even posting... so let's just hit this bullet point style, and acknowledge that I will quickly and thoroughly answer questions that may arise:

I plan on running a campaign consisting of T1-4: Temple of Elemental Evil, A1-4: Scourge of the Slavelords, and GDQ1-7: Queen of Spiders (15 AD&D modules in 3 "super modules" that attach to each other) - for my own strange reasons, I have decided not to simply run them with AD&D as written... and have, after a few different systems came to mind, decided firmly upon DCC for the campaign.

The idea I had, and would like some feedback on - how people think they would feel about it as a player, what they might change if they were to use it as a judge, etc. - is concerning the determination of 0-level characters.

Gary wrote a very detailed description of the village that include nearly every living person that call Homlett home, and includes a number of visitors to the area as well. Why not use those people as a pool of characters from which to draw the "funnel team"?

I am thinking of generating as a 0-level character every person mentioned in town that is "of age", including the few "farmer now, but still a 4th level fighter from when he adventured in younger years" types as 0-level farmers, and excluding the NPCs with current class experience (like all the NPCs the party might hire if playing AD&D) until the party has gained levels such that those NPCs could then be hirelings or replacements for dead characters with levels to their name.

There would be a simplified list containing each characters roll results from character generation, and the players could randomly determine which character from the list they got, taking turns until everyone had the right number of characters so as to not leave players feeling they didn't get a chance at the "cool characters" or some such complaint... and making sure that the party can't just grab characters based on stat spreads and take the "best" group possible.

It would be a pretty big list... but the players might actually have a full-TPK at 0-level depending on how they go about things, and having a full "second wave" to use might actually be a boon.

I don't know... it seems fun to do, and I think it would add to the feeling of impact upon the setting by actually involving a tangible reduction to the character's home town friends & family with every character death.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by ragboy »

TheNobleDrake wrote:
I plan on running a campaign consisting of T1-4: Temple of Elemental Evil, A1-4: Scourge of the Slavelords, and GDQ1-7: Queen of Spiders (15 AD&D modules in 3 "super modules" that attach to each other) - for my own strange reasons, I have decided not to simply run them with AD&D as written... and have, after a few different systems came to mind, decided firmly upon DCC for the campaign.
Ambitious!
TheNobleDrake wrote:
Gary wrote a very detailed description of the village that include nearly every living person that call Homlett home, and includes a number of visitors to the area as well. Why not use those people as a pool of characters from which to draw the "funnel team"?
Great idea! Actually, I would suggest checking out the Temple of Elemental Evil video game -- all of those characters now have names! The game is in 3.5e rules, but it's a great gaming resource -- loved playing it.
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TheNobleDrake
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by TheNobleDrake »

ragboy wrote:Great idea! Actually, I would suggest checking out the Temple of Elemental Evil video game -- all of those characters now have names! The game is in 3.5e rules, but it's a great gaming resource -- loved playing it.
I enjoyed that game as well - even though it was, in my opinion, a pretty clearly poorly thought out game... changing all the PC end assumptions to 3.5 without also changing the monster end completely took a "reasonably built intro adventure and decently tough continuation" and turned into a veritable digital meat-grinder full of encounters far beyond what the 3.5 rule books would suggest building for that level of party. (basically I am talking about how they converted the stats of all monsters to 3.5 version but left the numbers identical to their AD&D versions - making what used to be an okay encounter for a 2nd level party now somewhere in the "hard" range for a 4th level party.)

The names could definitely be useful though, as you suggest... though I can't decide whether I would rather use those names (thus keeping all the originally mentioned names as well), roll names in Appendix S (I'd rather have Anuradhapura as an odd name out than Spugnoir or Zert), or to leave name as one of the few choices the player will actually get to make for their characters.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by reverenddak »

TheNobleDrake wrote:
ragboy wrote:Great idea! Actually, I would suggest checking out the Temple of Elemental Evil video game -- all of those characters now have names! The game is in 3.5e rules, but it's a great gaming resource -- loved playing it.
I enjoyed that game as well - even though it was, in my opinion, a pretty clearly poorly thought out game... changing all the PC end assumptions to 3.5 without also changing the monster end completely took a "reasonably built intro adventure and decently tough continuation" and turned into a veritable digital meat-grinder full of encounters far beyond what the 3.5 rule books would suggest building for that level of party. (basically I am talking about how they converted the stats of all monsters to 3.5 version but left the numbers identical to their AD&D versions - making what used to be an okay encounter for a 2nd level party now somewhere in the "hard" range for a 4th level party.)

The names could definitely be useful though, as you suggest... though I can't decide whether I would rather use those names (thus keeping all the originally mentioned names as well), roll names in Appendix S (I'd rather have Anuradhapura as an odd name out than Spugnoir or Zert), or to leave name as one of the few choices the player will actually get to make for their characters.
If I were to play in this campaign, I would totally dig it. Moving to Los Angeles any time soon? heh.
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TheNobleDrake
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

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reverenddak wrote: If I were to play in this campaign, I would totally dig it. Moving to Los Angeles any time soon? heh.
No I am not... though you can feel free to PM me if you ever head for Idaho, just in case.

In other news: I just took a flip through the module... leaving out the local druid, all but one (the most "local" feeling) of the adventurers at the inn, the high level pair at the tower (but tossing in an apprentice for the mage), and the guys with rank in Burne's Badgers, there are 102 characters with brief stat blocks written into the module.

102... up to 106 if I treat those left out above, except the adventurers at the in, as 0-level as well (Burne becoming the apprentice on the list instead of adding a new line for himself)...

And if I go back and add in all the adult females mentioned as wives, daughters, barmaids, and kitchen girls that's at least another 30.

I may have to trim the list down by some means... maybe drop the villagers with children also on the list? I suppose I could also just set up the list based on which characters are the "most likely 40" to either volunteer for the expedition or get voted into going...

Suggestions on how to logically narrow down things to 40-50 would be appreciated, if anyone has some.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by ragboy »

TheNobleDrake wrote:
Suggestions on how to logically narrow down things to 40-50 would be appreciated, if anyone has some.
Are you narrowing it down because of the time involved to generate 100+ characters? Why not just use the Purple Sorcerer's random generator and mix and match?

Or... a farmer is a farmer is a farmer. Make a template for the occupations found in Hommlet with all the stats pre-rolled, then roll a "variance dice" when the player picks the character that adjusts each stat up or down by some number of points. Then you just have a list of names, occupations and a templated set of stats and run from there.

That may not be in the spirit of the game -- HOWEVER -- an even better idea is have the full list of names and occupations, have the player roll on the chart and then have that player roll the actual stats -- doesn't take long. You could have the other variables pre-selected/rolled like the equipment and cps. The weapon and trade good are already associated with the occupation. That gives the player ownership of an already "created" PC by having them roll the stats in full. Six rolls + Lucky roll if necessary and you're off to the Moathouse. :)
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TheNobleDrake
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by TheNobleDrake »

ragboy wrote:Are you narrowing it down because of the time involved to generate 100+ characters? Why not just use the Purple Sorcerer's random generator and mix and match?
I am actually narrowing it down because I don't believe in having stats written down that I will never use... and I figure that the players will be using about 20 characters to start, and a back up team would be good to have... but any beyond that is just wasted space in my campaign notes.

I did, actually, manage to narrow the list down to 40 by fitting each DCC occupation in the list that had a nearly direct relationship to a character written in the module - such as a few farmers of different varieties, a cheesemaker for the dairy farmer, a butcher for the innkeep, and a caravan guard, soldier, mercenary, outlaw and elven navigator to represent various man-at-arms and guard types...

I did, however, slip six demi-humans into the mix (2 of each) just for the sake of there being some chance a player get to play one despite the village being written as 100% human.

Other than farmer, I actually made a list that only uses each occupation that gets used once, which I think is pretty satisfactory.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by ragboy »

TheNobleDrake wrote:
Other than farmer, I actually made a list that only uses each occupation that gets used once, which I think is pretty satisfactory.
Well, darnit...that sounds fun. I wish I could jump into a campaign like this. I'm stuck running adventures for my group... :)

Quick Question -- are you running Temple as is, more or less, or are you taking the DCC route of all unique monsters, inserting patrons, all unique magic items, spells as true arcana, etc?

I've really wanted to go back to these legendary campaigns (this one and Slavers in particular) but figured the work involved could be better spent on original (and more episodic) adventures -- more because of the play style of my groups, than anything else.
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TheNobleDrake
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by TheNobleDrake »

ragboy wrote:Quick Question -- are you running Temple as is, more or less, or are you taking the DCC route of all unique monsters, inserting patrons, all unique magic items, spells as true arcana, etc?
Even were I running the Temple in AD&D, I would not be running it "as is."

The way that Gary Gygax wrote adventures was simultaneously inspiring and unpalatable to me, even in my self-taught formative years as an instant-and-always DM I found some of the details of his typical approach to adventure writing to be problematic... to summarize:

I will be removing every single piece of magical treasure from all the involved modules that does not play a vital role in the plot line (no dagger +3 in an un-named barmaid's boot, no longsword +1 under the bar, no barrel of lightning javelins stashed among the humanoid's supplies in their lair (that one, I admit, might not actually have been Gary's doing) or anything of the sort) - and I will likely be adding in intentional "Quest for it" moments to gain the few magical trinkets that will remain in the game.

I will also be keeping an eye towards the players accumulating wealth by trade of usable supplies, not discovery of frequent piles, sacks, and chests laden with coins, art, and jewels - neither of the above two are actually all that difficult or effort intensive, both being simply a blanketed deletion of all mention of treasures currently in the modules and then slipping a few in where genuinely needed.

As for encounters and monsters... I will absolutely be taking the DCC approach of unknown dangers over "Hey look guys, Orcs!"

I even have plans to, while maintaining the "theme" behind an encounter, change the delivery such that players who have already played through either the Temple of Elemental Evil video game or the original module can play through my adaptation and still find themselves saying "I did not see that coming!"

The only points on which the original monsters/encounters will show through will be those of the later modules that are already pretty "over the top" like DCC thrives on - namely once things get past the Temple and on into Scourge of the Slavelords, and especially once the party finally gets to the Against the Giants portion. The encounters involving multiple giants and various other monsters (hell hounds for example) will only need a bit of set dressing to spice them up and will fit right in with DCC's style.

Even with the encounters that will remain against "familiar monsters," I will be playing up the descriptions and behaviors such that the player will be able to say what it is they are up against and be correct, though I will never utter anything even near the monster's name.
ragboy wrote: I've really wanted to go back to these legendary campaigns (this one and Slavers in particular) but figured the work involved could be better spent on original (and more episodic) adventures -- more because of the play style of my groups, than anything else.
That actually brings up the part of my adapatation that will require the most effort - I will be setting the timelines of the entire string of 15 modules on a much slower pace, and delivering them in a much more episodic manner... my current estimate (still working on the barest skeleton of a campaign outline at the moment, so the number is likely to change drastically still) is that the campaign will span 20 years of in-character time.

The events in the backstory of the campaign will be placed further into history to help shroud all the information in the fog of time, and that allows for the PCs to spend years between modules in the campaign trying to chase down a lead on the next portion of the adventure - Example: in the original, it has been 10 years since the Temple fell to the forces of Good and the village elder and a few others remember a lot of what happened and veterans of that war are all over the place - the PCs are sent into the area by someone that suspects the Temple might be behind the recent problems... everything feels "pretty much known."

In my adaptation, it has been a couple generations since the Temple fell. No one currently alive in the village knows anything of the Temple beyond some story their grandfather may or may not have made up about that ruin out in the marsh that every parent tells their kids to stay away from. Even the evil types being sent to raise the Temple to power only have bare shreds of the information - the whole thing is more of a long game being played by immortals only half interested in giving their mortal pawns anything more than urges to please their master to use as guidance... everything feels "pretty much a mystery."
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ShaggyCan
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by ShaggyCan »

Ha! Already doing this!
I'm basically having Burne and Rufus be off adventuring, when banditry takes over all the local trade routes.
Otis takes a dozen of the best hunters to clear the road to Verbobonc and get help.
Meanwhile Milo holds a meeting at the wench and get volenteers from the village to go find the source of the problem, ie the Moathouse.
Since my funnel will be small (8 PCs run by 2 players) I will run Milo as an NPC to help take some of the hurt.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by TheNobleDrake »

ShaggyCan wrote:Ha! Already doing this!
I'm basically having Burne and Rufus be off adventuring, when banditry takes over all the local trade routes.
Otis takes a dozen of the best hunters to clear the road to Verbobonc and get help.
Meanwhile Milo holds a meeting at the wench and get volenteers from the village to go find the source of the problem, ie the Moathouse.
Since my funnel will be small (8 PCs run by 2 players) I will run Milo as an NPC to help take some of the hurt.
That's a great way to do things.

I have the benefit of up to 8 players at my table, so I tend to do things much larger in scale to accommodate - I love having a full table (when that doesn't, in itself, choke the game play speed to death like in other RPGs).

You mentioning Burne and Rufus reminds me of a part of the approach I decided upon but hadn't articulated here - Burne is one of the 0-level characters (a wizard's apprentice by occupation), as is Elmo (a hunter instead of a 4th level ranger), but Rufus maintains higher level status and assumes control of the Badgers simply so that someone is still in charge of the castle construction for the Viscount... seemed a natural fit since Rufus was always mentioned as being more tied to the Viscount's service.
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Re: An odd idea for a T1: Village of Homlett conversion

Post by ShaggyCan »

Ran them through most of the top level of the Moathouse. Killed half the PCs, they were used to 4th edition where encounters are fairly well balanced. The huge snake was a big wakeup call. Going to 1st level with 4 survivors, Elmo took a snakebite but is still kicking. Going back to town to regroup and bring more villagers for help. (They need a possible future cleric). Best part was right at the end. The 0 level Weaver all armoured up in the Bandit leader's chainmail and shield took a snake bite and died instantly. :lol: Don't get cocky kid!
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