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 Post subject: Abolish the Thief Class
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:34 pm 
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Gongfarmer

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I'm hip to the anti-Cleric argument, but what about getting rid of the Thief? Sheer surfaces can be climbed by the Wizard with Spider Climb and Levitation, while locks can be picked with Knock or Ward Portal cast in reverse. The Backstab has to be by surprise and almost never comes into play. A Thief is just a guy with bad HP and AC! Except for Luck, okay. A Thief can heal Luck--That's pretty cool. But so can a Hobbit (and all Pure Strain Humans). A Thief is the least useful member of any party. It's nice to have a character class designated to trigger all of the traps, but it's no requirement. Who needs a Thief?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:02 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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It's an interesting thought, as OD&D (the original RPG) only had fighting man, cleric, and magic-user as its base three classes. The thief was added in months later in Supplement I Greyhawk. There are many old-time players who advocate that all classes should be able to do thief-stuff and that making a thief specific class takes that element from the others.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 5:31 am 
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Cold-Hearted Immortal
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Jesse wrote:
I'm hip to the anti-Cleric argument, but what about getting rid of the Thief? Sheer surfaces can be climbed by the Wizard with Spider Climb and Levitation, while locks can be picked with Knock or Ward Portal cast in reverse. The Backstab has to be by surprise and almost never comes into play. A Thief is just a guy with bad HP and AC! Except for Luck, okay. A Thief can heal Luck--That's pretty cool. But so can a Hobbit (and all Pure Strain Humans). A Thief is the least useful member of any party. It's nice to have a character class designated to trigger all of the traps, but it's no requirement. Who needs a Thief?


Raises Hand

I have certainly seen backstab come up in play.

I have certainly seen the thief hold their own with a party of PCs.

In fact, in the first playtest of an 8th level adventure I am working on, run at Gary Con last year, a thief took out a godlike dragon using a liberal amount of Luck, backstab, and a particularly poor die roll on my part.

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:47 am 
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Ill-Fated Peasant
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i mean, like, isn’t it kinda your job as the player to explain how the thief can get his backstab in during combat? like how the warrior describes his mighty deed stuff? and then it’s the judge’s job to decide how likely it is you’ll succeed?

so if everybody’s doing their job, it shouldn’t be that hard to get in a couple backstabs a session, should it?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:01 pm 
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Tyrant Master (Administrator)
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Jesse wrote:
I'm hip to the anti-Cleric argument, but what about getting rid of the Thief? Sheer surfaces can be climbed by the Wizard with Spider Climb and Levitation, while locks can be picked with Knock or Ward Portal cast in reverse. The Backstab has to be by surprise and almost never comes into play. A Thief is just a guy with bad HP and AC! Except for Luck, okay. A Thief can heal Luck--That's pretty cool. But so can a Hobbit (and all Pure Strain Humans). A Thief is the least useful member of any party. It's nice to have a character class designated to trigger all of the traps, but it's no requirement. Who needs a Thief?

I think a lot of what you're saying can be looked at in this way:

The player playing the Thief has to give some thought to what they are doing.

The Wizard can "just cast a spell"...! The Warrior can "just swing a sword"...!

In some adventures they just might be the least "useful". In others, they might be the most useful. In the rest, it's down to how they are played...

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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:29 am 
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Wild-Eyed Zealot
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My players love their thieves and use both backstabs and thief skills with their associated bonuses constantly.

Also, your wizards can cast Spider Climb and Levitate if they know them, and there are downsides (like not being able to hold objects during Spider Climb). Ditto on Ward Portal and Knock, though if you're casting a spell in reverse, it's at -1D.

And humans cannot heal luck. What do you mean by this?

All in all, I think the thief is an overwhelmingly useful and essential class.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:34 pm 
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herecomethejudge wrote:
And humans cannot heal luck. What do you mean by this?


Pure Strain Humans in MCC can heal Luck.

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SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:19 am 
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Mighty-Thewed Reaver
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Something is amiss if your Thief is not getting to use Backstab regularly. My group of player's Thief is constantly Hiding in the Shadows so when combat begins, they pretty much always get to use it.

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