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Rogues and Martialists
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Author:  losloris [ Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Rogues and Martialists

This is two things; one I do not know, the other i am moving towards.

One; what are rogues and do they have anything nifty about them? I have seen them just kind of appear, have no idea which edition they belong to and want to understand. To be clear, I like thieves and reject outright they need to be Bilbo. You could be a thief, anyone could. I changed my combat matrix which had thieves fighting worse than clerics. I do not agree with that suggestion at all and have acted accordingly with hit points and better combat options. And then along comes these rogues that I know next to nothing about. (I am prepping for the next session which involves the secret of smugglers cove, wherein Mortimer escaped the party's first foray and he is a fighter/rogue).

The Other; in the bottom of the vault of the dragon kings I made those four odd guys into nasty, nasty ninjas who did an awesome job of cutting down two members (epic battle, I assure you). One of the guys who lost a character of longstanding said, yah, I wanna be one of those. So, together we are creating a ninja. I just saw something about Martialists and wonder, from a DM point of view (read, balance) is there something to watch for regarding Martialists? Are they stupid strong or a well thought out skill option?

Losloris

Author:  Ducaster [ Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rogues and Martialists

Hiya

"Rogue" is a kinda generic term, for a character with a slightly dishonest cast to them. In terms of classes in Original D&D the terms "Thief" and "Assassin" were first used, but were dropped in favour of the generic "Rogue" in later editions as it was felt to have a less negative connotation.
In the attempt to get back to RPGs roots here in DCC the term "Thief" was revisited as the need to be "Politically correct" is less prevalent!

In DCC the term as I said is Thief but the principle that no two "Thieves" have to be clones and it covers a multitude of sub-types is the rule. So the more "generic" Rogue is still a good term for describing the archetype. Here in DCC it doesn't have to mean a specific class more a characters outlook on life.

I like your rule that Thieves can fight better that Clerics. Pretty logical really.

The ninja types you describe are not personally known to me but there is plenty of thought on the subject in the character forums. If I wanted to make them player characters then a custom class might be in order. But for NPC's then I'd have them as a specialised type of warrior rather than go to the effort of a custom class for one specific adventure or campaign.

Author:  GnomeBoy [ Tue Oct 31, 2017 7:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rogues and Martialists

IIRC, you're running the 3.x era modules, but not using 3.x rules, is that right?

"Rogue" was 3rd Edition D&D's term for what had been the Thief. Simple as that. Conceptually, you can just translate rogue into thief anytime you see it in those modules.

"Martialist" was not a class I ever came across in that era. Maybe it was some other third-party publisher's invention...?

And also, this section of the forum is for the DCC RPG, not the modules produced for various editions of D&D, so your bandwidth on this may be lower than expected by posting in this section.

Author:  Ducaster [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rogues and Martialists

GnomeBoy wrote:
"Martialist" was not a class I ever came across in that era. Maybe it was some other third-party publisher's invention...?

I sense Google translate, or similar, is involved here old chap I assumed the OP means "Martial Artists" from the the context. But I May be wrong ;)

Some kind of Martial Arts based Character class isn't a bad idea, I've played around with an option that simulates that myself though still not satisfied with the results yet. No reason for DCC to be limited to only the Westernised Medieval fantasy after all, and while you can simulate some stuff with a creative application of the Mighty Deed of arms perhaps its not quite right either IMOHO...

Author:  losloris [ Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Rogues and Martialists

Yes, first edition play that is totally open to good ideas. One the I love about DCC 3 & 3.5 is the amount of hit points "monsters" have but that is another story.

I was thinking Rogue was some variation of thief, never explored, and, then wondered whether I was playing them right.

Yes, martial artist and liked finding the term as a cool hip thing. It works for me. I have been inventing moves, with no Martialists experience at all, and allowing the player to get new moves as he advances in level. One move is a sweeping kick designed to knock people off their feet. He can knock down one more person every second level. His parallel to a monk, and, the player has a monk like approach in role playing. I easily found information on martialist, am slowly digesting, and, wondered if others had experience with this character class.

Your feedback is appreciated. I apply a very collaborative approach and reading stuff on this whole forum has been worthwhile.

Losloris

Author:  Ducaster [ Thu Nov 02, 2017 7:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Rogues and Martialists

losloris wrote:
Yes, martial artist and liked finding the term as a cool hip thing. It works for me. I have been inventing moves, with no Martialists experience at all, and allowing the player to get new moves as he advances in level. One move is a sweeping kick designed to knock people off their feet. He can knock down one more person every second level. His parallel to a monk, and, the player has a monk like approach in role playing. I easily found information on martialist, am slowly digesting, and, wondered if others had experience with this character class.

Having played Age of Wulin(Wushu) for a couple of years online I know exactly what you mean.

There is in my opinion a definite gap in the archytypical character classes DCC supports in that regard. But as of now I haven't gotten time to go back to my notes and redo my first attempt at a comparable class. Still if its useful Losloris you can find some info here http://www.dcc.aweninspired.com/?page_id=687 maybe that will help you create something that suits your personal game?

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