clericless dcc

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catseye yellow
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clericless dcc

Post by catseye yellow »

anyone actually playing without clerics? or at least planning to play without them?
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by cjoepar »

I assume you mean a game where you do not allow Clerics as opposed to one where everyone in the party just happens to choose other classes.

It can work if you don't have anyone interested in playing Clerics anyway, I guess. There are some challenges involved, namely the death rate will be much higher, obviously, but you will also be limiting some of the party's ability to deal with encounters in creative ways.

One of the things that I think makes the core 4 character class system so pervasive in rpg's is that they each correspond to one of the 4 basic personality types. Some people prefer to play Clerics because that type of personality is appealing to them. You may disappoint those players if the class is not an option.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by finarvyn »

There was a lengthy thread on this topic back in the playtest days, where many argued that the cleric is the "least Appendix N" of the core classes. The nice thing about a cleric-less campaign is that undead become really terrifying.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by MrHemlocks »

Question I have is why run DCC without the option for players to play a cleric?

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Re: clericless dcc

Post by DCCfan »

In me experience it is the class that everyone complains about playing the most. I always get asked for more details about the gods what can be turned and spells. I always get complaints about the wizard class getting all the love when it comes to spell casting while clerics get shafted. I personally like the DCC cleric not being over powered 3.5 style. However I have considered taking them out of the game for awhile similar to what happened in Dragonlance.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by Borrowed_Thyme »

Yeah, I was just going to mention Dragonlance.

While I have never run a game where clerics are excluded, I did run a 2nd Edition AD&D campaign where the only faith which had 'classic' clerics was considered almost heretical by most people. Most priest adventurers were priests of specific mythos instead, which were usually a little less powerful.

In DCC, if you still wanted to include magical healing you could increase the frequency of magical healing items (although I suspect this would go a little against the feel of the game IMO), healing herbs, or perhaps give other classes some small skill in healing.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by JediOre »

DCCfan wrote:However I have considered taking them out of the game for awhile similar to what happened in Dragonlance.
What happened in Dragonlance?

My friend took me through the first two modules back in 1988 and 1989. I had a cleric and a multi-class cleric/magic-user yet have no memory of anything odd or overpowering occurring. (I would have enjoyed that since clerics fight with paladins and illusionists as my favorite class.)
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by tadkil »

http://dragonlancenexus.com/lexicon/ind ... f_Mishakal

DL 1 Was about recovering the Discs and returning the gods to the campaign.

As a side note the Conan RPG did not have clerics. Made fighting anything a much more serious decision.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by DCCfan »

JediOre wrote:
DCCfan wrote:However I have considered taking them out of the game for awhile similar to what happened in Dragonlance.
What happened in Dragonlance?

My friend took me through the first two modules back in 1988 and 1989. I had a cleric and a multi-class cleric/magic-user yet have no memory of anything odd or overpowering occurring. (I would have enjoyed that since clerics fight with paladins and illusionists as my favorite class.)
True clerics had been missing from the time of the cataclysm. They only started to return after Goldmoon recovered the silver disks (holy text) in the first DL book. She was then able to start teaching others. Before this event happens the cleric class could be played but you had no spells and no ability to turn undead. You were false cleric ( basically a fighter ).

I just remembered that at least two of the Dragonlords were clerics as well. So the evil clerics had a head start in the war of the lance.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by catseye yellow »

finarvyn wrote:There was a lengthy thread on this topic back in the playtest days, where many argued that the cleric is the "least Appendix N" of the core classes. The nice thing about a cleric-less campaign is that undead become really terrifying.
could you find a link for that thread, please? my google fu is weak.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by catseye yellow »

MrHemlocks wrote:Question I have is why run DCC without the option for players to play a cleric?

Image
because there are none in hyboria ;)

recently, i decided to treat dcc as not-d&d and more like something that could be used to emulate certain genre fiction. there are some d&d derived games that tried to do the same (iron heroes, conan d20) so it is not that unique.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by Raven_Crowking »

catseye yellow wrote:because there are none in hyboria ;)
Gods have priests in Hyboria, too.

"I am not afraid either," she said meditatively. "I was never afraid. I have looked into the naked fangs of Death too often. Conan, do you fear the gods?"

"I would not tread on their shadow," answered the barbarian conservatively. "Some gods are strong to harm, others, to aid; at least so say their priests. Mitra of the Hyborians must be a strong god, because his people have builded their cities over the world. But even the Hyborians fear Set. And Bel, god of thieves, is a good god. When I was a thief in Zamora I learned of him."

"What of your own gods? I have never heard you call on them."

"Their chief is Crom. He dwells on a great mountain. What use to call on him? Little he cares if men live or die. Better to be silent than to call his attention to you; he will send you dooms, not fortune! He is grim and loveless, but at birth he breathes power to strive and slay into a man's soul. What else shall men ask of the gods?"

"But what of the worlds beyond the river of death?" she persisted.

"There is no hope here or hereafter in the cult of my people," answered Conan. "In this world men struggle and suffer vainly, finding pleasure only in the bright madness of battle; dying, their souls enter a gray misty realm of clouds and icy winds, to wander cheerlessly throughout eternity."

Belit shuddered. "Life, bad as it is, is better than such a destiny. What do you believe, Conan?"

He shrugged his shoulders. "I have known many gods. He who denies them is as blind as he who trusts them too deeply. I seek not beyond death. It may be the blackness averred by the Nemedian skeptics, or Crom's realm of ice and cloud, or the snowy plains and vaulted halls of the Nordheimer's Valhalla. I know not, nor do I care. Let me live deep while I live; let me know the rich juices of red meat and stinging wine on my palate, the hot embrace of white arms, the mad exultation of battle when the blue blades flame and crimson, and I am content. Let teachers and priests and philosophers brood over questions of reality and illusion. I know this: if life is illusion, then I am no less an illusion, and being thus, the illusion is real to me. I live, I burn with life, I love, I slay, and am content."

- Robert E. Howard, Queen of the Black Coast

More specifically, see The Hour of the Dragon:

"I am Hadrathus, priest of Asura. One of my followers recognized you when you entered the city, and brought the word to me."

Conan grunted profanely.

"Do not fear that others discovered your identity," Hadrathus assured him. "Your disguise would have deceived any but a follower of Asura, whose cult it is to seek below the aspect of illusion. You were followed to the watch tower, and some of my people went into the tunnel to aid you if you returned by that route. Others, myself among them, surrounded the tower. And now, King Conan, it is yours to command. Here in the temple of Asura you are still king."


It is the magical powers of Asura, through his clerics, that allow Conan to defeat his foes at the climax of the story...
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by JediOre »

DCCfan wrote:
JediOre wrote:
DCCfan wrote:However I have considered taking them out of the game for awhile similar to what happened in Dragonlance.
What happened in Dragonlance?

My friend took me through the first two modules back in 1988 and 1989. I had a cleric and a multi-class cleric/magic-user yet have no memory of anything odd or overpowering occurring. (I would have enjoyed that since clerics fight with paladins and illusionists as my favorite class.)
True clerics had been missing from the time of the cataclysm. They only started to return after Goldmoon recovered the silver disks (holy text) in the first DL book. She was then able to start teaching others. Before this event happens the cleric class could be played but you had no spells and no ability to turn undead. You were false cleric ( basically a fighter ).

I just remembered that at least two of the Dragonlords were clerics as well. So the evil clerics had a head start in the war of the lance.
Thanks, I'll quite hijacking this thread. My friend must have gutted that whole element for I do recall we were supposed to use NPCs to game with and that also went out the window. I must say, I would not have enjoyed the module as much using NPCs.


Now returning to the thread question, How to enjoy DCC-RPG without clerics.
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Re: clericless dcc

Post by ragboy »

You can do DCC without clerics. To "reclaim" the lost class functionality, just have a collection of patrons that provide the cleric special abilities as patron spells -- or rewards for service or higher Patron Bond results, etc. Problem solved. The "priest" is dedicated to a supernatural boss, and his/her powers are granted (and removed) by that boss. You get all the "features" of a wizard (spellburn, etc) and it jibes closer to Appendix N. Patron Bond on a non-spellcaster suddenly makes a lot more sense.

Ultimately, they're both spellcasters that sacrifice their mortal existence by meddling with the powers of supernatural entities. I personally like the difference between the two, but I can see why some don't.

This was the approach I was angling toward with this: http://mysticbull.blogspot.com/2014/04/ ... hurch.html
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