Kid Heroes

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Tokage
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Kid Heroes

Post by Tokage »

There is a relatively common fantasy trope, one I am especially fond of, yet one that to my knowledge is oft entirely ignored in D&D, retroclones, and (unless some module I've missed discusses the matter) even DCC. For adventuring does not ask an age of consent, and anyone, even the young, are often thrust into it unwillingly - or walk into it blindly without knowing what they are getting into because their friend double-dared them.

Harry Potter got his taste of danger and great trials at eleven. Scrooge McDuck had his first adventure when he was ten, and left home for more at the age of thirteen. Guts, thanks to truly miserable upbringing, was forced into mercenary life at tender age of nine. The heroes of Redwall tend to be younger rather than older when they go out to pick fights, Narnia doesn't even let adults in, the list goes on. In DCC, you could roll up a whole gang of Goonies going out to search treasure and ending up finding death instead.

As mentioned, I much enjoy this concept in adventures. Not necessarily because I like to play as children specifically - although that is true too - but because I like the opportunity to eventually end up with a whitebearded old man that's spent quite literally his entire life fighting things and taking their treasure and seeing the world. Of the above examples, the Life & Times of Scrooge McDuck is a particular favorite, and a lifetime of adventure an idea that I'm especially fond of.

And what better system for it than one in which everyone begins as a zero-level peasant, one where children need not to be protected because the next best thing is still some village idiot just as out of their depth?

Once again, I may have missed something like this having been discussed - I made a quick search but didn't find anything - or it may be brought up in a module somewhere. In which case, I apologise. Regardless, here are some proposed rules for kid heroes, just in case someone might be inspired to have all his players roll up rival gangs and throwing them into a dungeon to survive together.

Here's a sum-up: a child starts out physically and mentally undeveloped, neither as strong nor as clever as an adult, and with little to no professions or skills to speak of since they most likely haven't gotten around learning any yet. However, by the time they are adults (if any of them are lucky enough to make it), they should end up as stronger and tougher than someone that did not start on this life at their tender developing years. They roll reduced stats, but regain the difference upon adulthood with a bit of extra.

A twelve-year-old (or equivalent) hero-to-be rolls only 1d2 for his starting hit points, rather than 1d4. He uses a 3d5 to roll his ability scores, with the exception of luck, which is 3d7 instead, for many cosmic forces would prefer not to see children harmed and thus extend a bit of protection towards them. If their luck ends up higher than 18, they won't gain any additional bonuses from it.

Every few years, the hero receives +1 hit point and +1 to all ability scores, except luck which gains a -1 instead, for a total of +2 HP and +3 (and -3) to his ability scores by the time he is an adult at the age of sixteen (or thirty-three if he is halfling: it is ill-adviced to play an elf or a dwarf child). I'm not quite sure whether to allow the kid hero to burn those luck points instead, without an additional penalty as he grows up.

All class levels and their benefits are gained as normal regardless of age. Maybe there should be a cap for how far they can go at their age, though: 2 or 3 levels at the start, extended as they grow older, finally removed altogether as they reach adulthood.

They will never have learned any occupational skills, having had no time to do so in fighting for their lives: that is the price to pay for their messed-up childhood. They can take a break from adventuring and learn something, but if they do, they will lose some of their hard-earned benefits.

With their stats maxed out at 15 and hit points at 2 at the beginning, the life of a child adventurer is a rocky road at first. But by the end they find their ability scores no less than 6 - with the bell curve bumping the average up somewhat - and hit points 3 at the very least, having hard-earned these benefits by blood and sweat and tears from the beginning, yet still never becoming truly supernatural in any way.

Anything y'all might have to comment on, perhaps? Improvements, criticism, or think it's all right? Or perhaps that it's complete junk, that I'm approaching this from the wrong direction, or even that the entire concept is doomed and that no one else here is mad enough to throw a child into a dungeon?

I dunno, I just want to play a Scrooge.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by GnomeBoy »

Of course, the Occupation chart already has Orphan and Urchin, which are generally going to be interpreted as children. And looking the list over, there's no reason some of the others couldn't be children as well... Indentured Servant could be a child, come to think of it, for example (a whole family could be indentured).

I think the lowered stats (with higher Luck) thing works, but I see no reason to limit hit points. Kids can be pretty tough. And a d4 is darn fragile, as is...

Maybe we need a Duck race, so you can play that Scrooge...? :mrgreen:
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Max_The_Judge
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by Max_The_Judge »

Maybe, I don't know. The kids in those stories are often functionally equivalent to adults. Wise beyond their years, able to see obvious things adults miss because they're too caught up in being adults, often even more emotionally mature than adults. They certainly don't act like annoying adolescents. The only real difference is that they're never taken seriously. I think the rules for zero level characters work fine. Although you could take a few pages from "Seven at One Blow" and rule that their untrained nature means that they don't get any positive bonuses from attributes and all attacks only do one damage unless they have a negative mod in which case they must always out wit their opponents.
Tokage
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by Tokage »

Max_The_Judge wrote:Wise beyond their years, able to see obvious things adults miss because they're too caught up in being adults, often even more emotionally mature than adults. They certainly don't act like annoying adolescents. The only real difference is that they're never taken seriously.
So, no need to reduce intelligence? The latter sounds like the consequence of low personality, though.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by GnomeBoy »

Tokage wrote: The latter sounds like the consequence of low personality, though.
This may be trying to read too much into a limited set of stats.

Someone could be an absolute genius — but if they show up to the meeting in a hot dog suit, they're are not going to be viewed that way, until they shows whats they gots.


First Impression: "This is just a kid. They're going to be worthless."

Later: "Hunh, this kid is pretty smart — for a kid..."

More Later: "...I think this kid might be smarter than me!"
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Tokage
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by Tokage »

GnomeBoy wrote:This may be trying to read too much into a limited set of stats.
Maybe, but it kind of goes both ways: you can have the kid have lower intelligence, due to a technically undeveloped mind, but still behave in a precocious and pretty clever manner.

But you may be right that I'm reading too much into things and making them more complicated than they need to be, and that you might as well give your kid heroes the standard stat rolls. It just kind of makes sense that they would've become stronger and tougher by the time they've grown up: if those stats are the culmination of the hero's training and upbringing, the best he can manage without supernatural aid, then surely he would not have reached that limit when he was like twelve years old?

Although maybe some real fantasy heroes actually could have done that, I don't know. Would be more plausible, and therefore more identifiable, if they hadn't.
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GnomeBoy
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by GnomeBoy »

Well, my point was more that how someone is perceived is more 'cultural', so if people take kids for not being smart, that's a cultural bias not a reflection that the kids aren't impressive enough. Given time, you'll find out how impressive someone is (or not).

I think the 3d5 thing sounds fine -- it all comes down to the vibe you want to set up. Maybe when/if they're 'grown up' there's a chance at a 1d3 point improvement.... thus, bringing their numbers up to 3d6 standards.

Like, if they can roll above their 'kid' score on a d20, they get to add 1d3 to that stat to arrive at their 'grown up' score (roll for each stat individually).
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stripes
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Re: Kid Heroes

Post by stripes »

I'm not sure how much "historical accuracy" matters in your campaign (this isn't a knock, some people enjoy it, some are bored by it) but childhood to the extent that it existed use to end WAY sooner.

Depending on what sources you use and how you define adult (and the social class the child was born into) childhood ended somewhere between 7 and 12 years of age. For example in the 1150s and 1160s the church forbid marriage (and espousal) before the age of SEVEN. By the 1170s that age had moved to TWELVE.

Children were frequently put to work as soon as they were physically able. So pretty much any level zero profession could have your character young enough to be considered a "kid" by today's standards. On the flip side for the other characters to consider someone a "kid" they would probably need to be a lot younger then we would expect in the modern era.

Pretty much every group I'm in tends to ignore this sort of thing because having a significant span of yours where children are children and not just smaller workers makes the world more relatable and gives more plot hooks ("our children were stolen!!").
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