Hey all, I recently discovered Dungeon Crawl Classics and I love it! From the dice to the art to the elegant rules it all harkens back to the feeling of discovering D&D as a kid.
I love that there are no fiddly feats or skill points, but for my tastes I would like to see a skill system that takes into account character growth and differentiates characters more. The problem with most RPG skill systems is that they get bloated and add lots of time and fiddliness to character creation, so I've set out to create something that stays true to the elegant and simple nature of DCC and takes advantage of the Zocchi dice while avoiding the fiddliness of allocating skill points. Here's what I've got so far, let me know what you think.
Skill List:
Alchemy
Arcana
Acrobatics
Athletics
Craft (specify)
Dungeoneering
Healing
Intimidation
Nature
Notice
Performance
Persuasion
Religion
Riding
Snares
Stealth
Streetwise
Survival
Tracking
Skills are rated by a die type that is added to rolls for that skill. *For example, a D3 rating in stealth allows you to roll 1d20+Agility modifier+1D3 when making a stealth check. *Skills are ranked from D3 to D16 along the dice chain. *Skills are capped by level parallel to the dice chain, so a Level 1 character can't have a skill rank higher than a D3 while a Level 3 character can't have a skill ranked higher than a D5. *Level 0 characters cannot have skill ranks. *Every time a skill is successfully used in the game by a character it gets a check mark. *Once a skill has 5 check marks, the player rolls a D16; if the result is equal to or higher than the die type of what would be the new skill ranking, the skill advances to that die type. *So, for example, a Level 2 character with a D3 in stealth uses the skill successfully for the 5th time; he rolls a D16 and gets a 7, which is higher than 4 (from the D4 the skill is eligible to raise to), so his stealth skill is now D4. *He can't attempt to raise his stealth skill to D5 until he reaches Level 3. *This is intended to simulate the way people progress towards mastery with skills in real life; learning the basics is relatively easy, but as one gets more proficient it becomes progressively harder to overcome plateaus and improve.
What do you think of this home brew skill system?
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Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
An easier version of a skill system would be that, when you as the judge feel that the character has done something in-game to expand his skill in some area, give him a bonus (flat bonus, or increased die type) when making relevant skill checks. That way, there is no list to consider, and you can make such a bonus as focused or as broad as seems appropriate in your game.
SoBH pbp:
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.
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Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
Or steal the "skill system" from 13th Age. Basically, every character gets 8 background points (no more than 5 in one area, I think) and instead of picking a skill you essentially are picking a skill bundle.
For example, "City Guard in Punjar" could be a background. If during an adventure you come up with a neat way to use it (perhaps you are breaking into a castle and want to avoid guards there, and you say "hey, wouldn't I know about how guards organize their patrol patterns?") the GM can rule that you can take your background points as a bonus to your roll.
You don't have to pick individual skills, only to be creative when situations demand it.
For example, "City Guard in Punjar" could be a background. If during an adventure you come up with a neat way to use it (perhaps you are breaking into a castle and want to avoid guards there, and you say "hey, wouldn't I know about how guards organize their patrol patterns?") the GM can rule that you can take your background points as a bonus to your roll.
You don't have to pick individual skills, only to be creative when situations demand it.
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DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11 (over 11 years of SPAM bustin'!)
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975
"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson
"Misinterpreting the rules is a shared memory for many of us"
-- Joseph Goodman
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Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
Hi Rabidwookie. I recently changed over to DCC for my campaign and have been reading up on how other judges aka Gamemasters handle skills. Having used a lot of fiddly game systems over the years I too was looking for ideas for skills when I ran across your thread.
I think your idea is really a good one. I've formerly run games using Rolemaster which is one of the fiddliest out there, and most recently Fantasy Dice which also has a detailed skill system. Your idea allows skills to be used and advanced in a very natural progression without too much bookkeeping while maintaining a degree of control. Your idea of a cap in the dice chain tied to Character level is quite elegant. And requiring 5 successful uses to attempt an increase will keep characters from stocking up on high level unused skills which has been a real problem in my game with Rolemaster and Fantasy Dice.
Kudos to you!
I think your idea is really a good one. I've formerly run games using Rolemaster which is one of the fiddliest out there, and most recently Fantasy Dice which also has a detailed skill system. Your idea allows skills to be used and advanced in a very natural progression without too much bookkeeping while maintaining a degree of control. Your idea of a cap in the dice chain tied to Character level is quite elegant. And requiring 5 successful uses to attempt an increase will keep characters from stocking up on high level unused skills which has been a real problem in my game with Rolemaster and Fantasy Dice.
Kudos to you!
Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
Gives me a similar idea though slightly less powered. Same skill list and dice size limit is still tied to your level. The differences are a character only needs to succeed in a skill once, however they can only raise a single skill that they succeeded in per quest/dungeon and the roll is made at the end of the quest/dungeon. This both limits the speed of how many skills might bump up per level and also all player to know when the point resets to be a new quest line. Just like with learning spells if a character fails to advance their first selected skill they can roll for another skill they succeeded on until either they learn a skill or are out of skills they were successful at. Also the skills cap at a d10 rather than d16 with the dice size capped at the character level. For level one characters success means the character is proficient regardless of occupation and rolls a d20 for those checks rather than the normal untrained d10. This also add a d2 die which can use any die where odd=1 even=2. Only gap then in the dice is a d9, but that gap can exist to let players potentially build up other skills or catch up on skills they may have been unlucky with.
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Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
Skills is where I personally draw the line between OSR and non-OSR. I have basically stolen the system from « Beyond the Wall ».
You could use an attribute check instead but the problem is that they do not scale with level.
What I do instead is to use Save checks in place of Skill checks and not bother about skill lists. Saves scale up with the character level and are differentiated by class which means that some characters will be better at some task than others.
With only 3 saves you are probably missing one to cover the physical activities that mostly require strength. I’ve thus created a 4th save (Brawn Save) and use the « to hit modifier » of the character class as its basis. With Brawn, Reflex, Fortitude and Willpower Saves, you are pretty much covered.
For perception checks, which are the most common checks in my experience, I use the following principles:
1. Don’t use them 99% of the time. Pay attention to your descriptions instead. If the player has a chance of noticing something then there should be a hint of that something somewhere in you description. This will actually make your game far more enjoyable.
2. If you still have to use them, roll luck instead.
You could use an attribute check instead but the problem is that they do not scale with level.
What I do instead is to use Save checks in place of Skill checks and not bother about skill lists. Saves scale up with the character level and are differentiated by class which means that some characters will be better at some task than others.
With only 3 saves you are probably missing one to cover the physical activities that mostly require strength. I’ve thus created a 4th save (Brawn Save) and use the « to hit modifier » of the character class as its basis. With Brawn, Reflex, Fortitude and Willpower Saves, you are pretty much covered.
For perception checks, which are the most common checks in my experience, I use the following principles:
1. Don’t use them 99% of the time. Pay attention to your descriptions instead. If the player has a chance of noticing something then there should be a hint of that something somewhere in you description. This will actually make your game far more enjoyable.
2. If you still have to use them, roll luck instead.
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Re: What do you think of this home brew skill system?
I love the way skills are presented in the rules, and I rely on this 99% of the time.
That said, your list covers the basic skills I am used to seeing in 5e D&D, and I'd be okay with any player choosing from this list - if their background & occupation warranted it's inclusion.
I don't see a 0-level gongfarmer knowing anything about arcana, so that one wouldn't be a trained skill for that character, but they could still attempt to use that skill with a flat d10 roll.
I tell players that they are free to write any skills down if they think it relevant at character creation, but relevance depends on the circumstances of the moment.
Players should not collaborate on their lists. No two characters should have the exact same list of skills that they regularly rely on during the game, even if they belong to the same occupation.
That said, your list covers the basic skills I am used to seeing in 5e D&D, and I'd be okay with any player choosing from this list - if their background & occupation warranted it's inclusion.
I don't see a 0-level gongfarmer knowing anything about arcana, so that one wouldn't be a trained skill for that character, but they could still attempt to use that skill with a flat d10 roll.
I tell players that they are free to write any skills down if they think it relevant at character creation, but relevance depends on the circumstances of the moment.
Players should not collaborate on their lists. No two characters should have the exact same list of skills that they regularly rely on during the game, even if they belong to the same occupation.
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― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote