Awarding XP

[marshal kt]

I've been playing and running RPG's since 1980. DCC is a good throw-back game.

I've read the xp section on page 359 and instead of explaining thinmgs, it made them more confusing.
Using the 0 level funnel from the back of the book, when should you give out xp; after the entire module is completed? After each section/room/encounter?
Also, it says xp is earned per encounter. Does that mean per room/encounter, in the adventure?

How much would/did you give out for that adventure?

If during the adventure, how do you handle when a character levels up? Do you make them wait till the adventure or session ends or allow during the game. I can easily see the 2nd way disrupting the game while a player or players roll HP increases, add new spells and the like.

I've always given out xp at the end of the session, with leveling up then.

[Raven_Crowking]

I give out XP as it is earned, and we take a 10 minute break (if needed!) to level up.

Remember that, while clerics gain their spells immediately from their gods, wizards and elves must study to learn them (except patron bond for elves).

[GnomeBoy]

...I can easily see the 2nd way disrupting the game while a player or players roll HP increases, add new spells and the like....

Like Raven says, spells don't just drop out of the sky -- even for Clerics, consider making them wait til their next disapproval-wipe time (dawn, sunset, whatever it is) to get new spells. Why would a god in a disapproving mood grant them new spells?

And for the other classes, leveling up is a matter of adjusting a few numbers -- doesn't take all that long.

Divvying up a treasure stash can take longer than leveling up.

[marshal kt]

OK, so using the 0 level in the back of the book, when would, did you give out xp?
7 times? once after each encounter/room?

the 1st room, door had a small challenge, getting in. xp varied by how they entered. 1 xp.

2 was trapped. xp only if trap defeated. 1 xp to survivors otherwise.

3 was a repeating trap only if trap defeated or avoided. 1 xp to survivors otherwise.

4 had a monster xp to survivors. 2 xp.

5 was monsters, but avoidable, but benefical to destroy. xp? 1 xp to who figured out to destroy skulls.

6 monsters and benefit to later on. xp. 2 xp.

7 nothing but treasure. no xp.

8 major battle. xp to survivors. 2-4 xp, depending on how many opponents and tactics used.

9 just treasure. no xp unless they made contact. then 1 xp.

Sound about right?

[NJPDX]

significant risk of death should be worth more than 1 XP IMO and I wouldn't award it for finding treasure unless it was magical. And yes I would award it after each encounter.

The published 0-leve lfunnel modules seem to imply that characters will hit level 1 before the end of the module's finale.

[Raven_Crowking]

I don't have the book in front of me, and this is just my $.02, so take it with a grain of salt.

Prior to DCC, I awarded XP from the previous session either between sessions or at the start of the next session. This was largely because I needed to calculate XP, and because systems like AD&D, where you needed to train to gain a level and could gain no further XP until that level had been gained, would have penalized per-encounter XP. Also, let's face it, that was the way it had always been.

Using DCC, I award XP during play, immediately following the event that earned the XP. In the event of a fast series of encounters, I award XP for each part of the series, individually, as soon as the PCs have a chance to catch their breath. By this I mean that I don't break rising action to award XP, but do award it as soon as is feasible.

I don't award XP based on the expected difficulty of the encounter, but rather on how it actually plays out, so different groups going through the same module might gain different XP from the various encounters that occur. I find that this tends to even out in the end - in Sailors on the Starless Sea, for instance, most PCs level just before the climax, in multiple groups. But not always. Sometimes levelling occurs earlier, sometimes later.

Really, I think the important thing with the DCC XP system is to relax, and approach it in whatever way seems right at the time. Really, if PCs level an encounter early or late doesn't really matter. XP is used in games like 3e, 4e, and Pathfinder to "sculpt" an expected outcome of play. One of the truly wonderful thing about DCC is that, while the adventure writer (pro or at home) has some ideas about how encounters are likely to go, when the dice hit the table anything can happen. A spell, a mighty deed, a critical hit, or a fumble....even burning Luck at some specific point....can all take the game in unexpected directions. Sometimes wildly unexpected directions.

Relax, have fun, and enjoy the ride. So long as you are giving out XP on a 1-4 basis, where you think XP are earned, you can't go wrong. Even if the adventure ends in a TPK, it takes 5 minutes to roll up a new group. Or, as the book suggests, the PCs can wake up in hell and try to fight their way out.

Again, just my $.02.

[cjoepar]

I give xp's after each encounter, and have done so for as long as I remember, going back to the early 80's at least. I have always thought that the idea that a person has to train in order to assimilate something they've learned was rather artificial and almost always highly unrealistic. If my character sees someone set off a deadly trap, he would immediately learn something about how deadly traps work, and he really doesn't need to meditate on it or study his notes in order to know more about how traps work and what he might not want to do.

As far as DCC goes, I have abandoned the worldview where characters only run into monsters that are appropriate for their level. My current campaign has only had the party cleaning out a single dungeon that I designed which is 4 levels deep. Sure, I designed it with a tendency for nastier, tougher monsters to be found further in, but that's because I would expect it to get more dangerous the further I get from the surface, not because I expect the party to be higher level when they meet those creatures. And if the party wanted to, they could almost go straight down to the 4th level with only a couple of encounters. <shrug> That's up to the party to decide what to do - I just take care of the mechanics of how the world they explore reacts to them. And there are a few encounters that are no where near the same difficulty level as other things around them, because I also don't think things would smoothly transition. For instance, the party has already found a secret hallway on the first level with a Shadow guarding a big pile of treasure. They are drooling over the prospect of what might be in that pile of loot, but they quickly learned that the shadow (who can only be harmed by magical weapons) is something the party cannot possibly contend with yet, and so they are careful to avoid that part of the dungeon.

Remember too that it's all about what happens to the party with regards to what they learn from it, not how tough the monster might be. While highly unlikely, it's technically feasible that a single 1 HD goblin could kill a couple characters in a third level party before the party overcomes it, and that would award more xp's than an ancient red dragon that the party gets lucky and takes out without suffering any losses, because I rolled nothing but 1's and the party rolled all 20's.

I do take into account good roleplaying or smart play, too, though. Especially if someone passes up an opportunity to metagame in order to do things consistent with the personality and background of their character. But I tend to award an extra xp to those people individually, on the side.

[webcatcher]

I give xp after each encounter just for book-keeping purposes, but I usually don't allow leveling until the end of the session. Even with a system with fast level-ups, I find players get distracted real fast when they've got something as exciting as leveling going on.

[IronWolf]

I do XP just like I do in 3.5/Pathfinder games. Which is to say I don't! I tell the characters when it is time to level up. So I don't hand out XP.

[Skyscraper]

I do XP just like I do in 3.5/Pathfinder games. Which is to say I don't! I tell the characters when it is time to level up. So I don't hand out XP.

This is what I do also.

One reason is that we play sporadically, for example one session per month. And in some sessions, we have no or very little combat. If I followed XP progression to the letter, this means that PCs might level every other year of gameplay, which is too long. I prefer to simply let them level up when I feel that we're somewhere a bit special in the game.

Also, take a step back: what is the purpose of XP? To me, it's to have the PCs evolve, to have them achieve new powers and abilities over time, so that the players get a sense of accomplishment. It's fun to level up. But why use XP to achieve that?

Do XPs do the trick? Moderately, at best. Depending on the group you play with, some games might have very little combat, and combat is typically the main XP provider, by far.

And then: why only combat? Why does the negotiations with the Count, or the sneaking around at night, or heck the having fun in the tavern, not bring in XP? Some judges award XP for that too, but rarely is it comparable relative to the quantity of XP awarded for battle, so it's a mirage really, at least quantitatively.

Finally, I contend that it takes another edge off powergaming. Players think less about levelling up, about the new powers they might gain, when XP are not discussed during game sessions.

So I've abandonned XP altogether when I'm judge or DM. I wing it for levelling up, and we do it in-between sessions. It works very well, and my players seem very comfortable with the idea. (More than that, since we've switched, the rare times I asked if they wanted back to XP, they said no.)

For DCC, what I did is make them level up when my entire funnel adventure was done, which took about 5 game sessions, a bit longer than it might, but man was the funnel a blast

[marshal kt]

Well the consensus is..whatever.
I don't like 3.5, 3.75 or what ever you're calling pathfinder. I never did, that's why I stopped playing and running D&D for 15 years.

After reading and rereading DCC, I do see that in spite of it's age, it needs a lot of work.
Things with no, very little or poor explanations.
Lack of support. Yes, to run event games you get pens, pins and buttons, but the availability of downloadable materials, not fan made is disturbing.

Last nights session definately reminded me of years past. A poorly written adventure. Stairless see. My biggest complaint of almost every D&D module from 1980 till, I guess current, is a lake of flow.

Here's how rooms & areas are described.
Room decor, what's in the room and it's size. [good start]
Treasure found in the room if searched.
Creatures, monsters & traps in the room to be defeated BEFORE you get to the treasure. [wtf, that should be before the treasure description. Possibly even before the majority of the rooms description.

[GnomeBoy]

And then: why only combat?

I hear you. I give XP for overcoming obstacles. That could be finding the needed information by getting the right people drunk, or slaying a giant snake in the way of the goal.

But to be fair, DCC calls for awarding XP "by encounters, not creature or challenge" (pg 359; and it goes on from there). An encounter could be dealing with a tight-lipped sage, or any of a thousand other things that aren't fighting. If it was tricky and took some work on the players' parts, or cost the characters something in terms of possessions or abilities or the like, it's probably worth some XP.

XP -- Not Just For Combat Anymore!™

[GnomeBoy]

Well the consensus is..whatever.
I don't like 3.5, 3.75 or what ever you're calling pathfinder. I never did, that's why I stopped playing and running D&D for 15 years.

After reading and rereading DCC, I do see that in spite of it's age, it needs a lot of work.
Things with no, very little or poor explanations.
Lack of support. Yes, to run event games you get pens, pins and buttons, but the availability of downloadable materials, not fan made is disturbing.

Last nights session definately reminded me of years past. A poorly written adventure. Stairless see. My biggest complaint of almost every D&D module from 1980 till, I guess current, is a lake of flow.

Here's how rooms & areas are described.
Room decor, what's in the room and it's size. [good start]
Treasure found in the room if searched.
Creatures, monsters & traps in the room to be defeated BEFORE you get to the treasure. [wtf, that should be before the treasure description. Possibly even before the majority of the rooms description.

I'd be happy to try to help, but I guess I'm not sure exactly where the problems lay...

I mean, page 359: "award XP to the players as they complete encounters." You came looking for when to award XP, some suggestions were suggested, and the book itself has an answer. If there is more clarification needed, I'm not sure what to address.

Is the "lack of flow" from the "Starless Sea" the same as the complaint about room descriptions? I've had to do some interpreting there, and maybe I don't have what you're saying right...

[marshal kt]

Well the consensus is..whatever.
I don't like 3.5, 3.75 or what ever you're calling pathfinder. I never did, that's why I stopped playing and running D&D for 15 years.

After reading and rereading DCC, I do see that in spite of it's age, it needs a lot of work.
Things with no, very little or poor explanations.
Lack of support. Yes, to run event games you get pens, pins and buttons, but the availability of downloadable materials, not fan made is disturbing.

Last nights session definately reminded me of years past. A poorly written adventure. Stairless see. My biggest complaint of almost every D&D module from 1980 till, I guess current, is a lake of flow.

Here's how rooms & areas are described.
Room decor, what's in the room and it's size. [good start]
Treasure found in the room if searched.
Creatures, monsters & traps in the room to be defeated BEFORE you get to the treasure. [wtf, that should be before the treasure description. Possibly even before the majority of the rooms description.

I'd be happy to try to help, but I guess I'm not sure exactly where the problems lay...

I mean, page 359: "award XP to the players as they complete encounters." You came looking for when to award XP, some suggestions were suggested, and the book itself has an answer. If there is more clarification needed, I'm not sure what to address.

Is the "lack of flow" from the "Starless Sea" the same as the complaint about room descriptions? I've had to do some interpreting there, and maybe I don't have what you're saying right...

Ok, what is an encounter? I asked for specific examples using the zero level funnel in the back of the book. I got 4 different answers.

When do you give xp? Old D&D used to be at the end of a gaming session. Every other game I've played since has been the same, or after after specific section is completed.

Lack of flow. I gave you exactly how several rooms in the adventure were described, without having to use spoilers and how I think they should be written.

Here is a specific example with a spoliers alert.
In the temple in the starless sea adventure.
The description of the room. {good job.}
It then describes and gives a value to the 12 gemstones on the frog. {good decription but too soon.}
Then it tells what happens to anyone who approaches within 5 feet of the frog. {that should be before the description and value of the gemstones.}
The description of the heat coming off the toad, just before it says the ichor attacks, should be in the beginning, about the 3rd paragraph, after the descriptions of the skeletons but before the description of the gemstones.
The characters have to get with 10 feet, then 5 feet, to inspect the gemstones.

The description of the sound when the characters steps into the room should be also in the beginning, about the 2nd paragraph, not after what is found in the room after it is walked in.

Is that specific enough of an example of how flow should be written?

The description of Area A, devil's causeway, is written well.
It describes what you see and in what order as approached. Then what you find after the encounter.

[GnomeBoy]

Ok, what is an encounter? I asked for specific examples using the zero level funnel in the back of the book. I got 4 different answers

Well, the Portal Under the Stars has an encounter chart. Those would be the encounters described in the adventure as published. If I tacked on my own intro encounter, and it involved something where there was a chance to 'win or lose' the encounter, that'd be worth XP, too, e.g., maybe something involving a traveling salesman, who could either sell them something useful or steal something from them -- depending on how that played out, it could be worth XP.

If the term 'encounter' is vague, you could substitute 'scene' or something.

When do you give xp? Old D&D used to be at the end of a gaming session. Every other game I've played since has been the same, or after after specific section is completed.

Going with Portal Under the Stars again, after the 'searing light' trap, the survivors get XP. After the statues, the survivors get XP. And so on. Most games do hold XP awards until after the session. But at the very least, the low-level play of DCC should be done this way, or else in a funnel adventure everyone could die before reaching the end, whereas had they had their proper chance to level-up, they could carry on and have a shot at winning the day. The nature of low-level play, makes awarding XP promptly more relevant -- you could resume your more familiar approach from Level 2 on, without problem I'd guess.

Lack of flow. I gave you exactly how several rooms in the adventure were described, without having to use spoilers and how I think they should be written.

Here is a specific example with a spoliers alert.
In the temple in the starless sea adventure.
The description of the room. {good job.}
It then describes and gives a value to the 12 gemstones on the frog. {good decription but too soon.}
Then it tells what happens to anyone who approaches within 5 feet of the frog. {that should be before the description and value of the gemstones.}
The description of the heat coming off the toad, just before it says the ichor attacks, should be in the beginning, about the 3rd paragraph, after the descriptions of the skeletons but before the description of the gemstones.
The characters have to get with 10 feet, then 5 feet, to inspect the gemstones.

The description of the sound when the characters steps into the room should be also in the beginning, about the 2nd paragraph, not after what is found in the room after it is walked in.

Is that specific enough of an example of how flow should be written?

The description of Area A, devil's causeway, is written well.
It describes what you see and in what order as approached. Then what you find after the encounter.

I don't have Starless Sea, so I can't flip to it to see exactly how it is written. But yes, some areas in published modules have a lot of info. It doesn't always get organized the way that might make for best play. Some try to put what's obvious first, and leave interaction-y bits to later paragraphs, etc. Frankly, I'm more and more of the opinion that bullet lists would be better for calling out important stuff, and then a paragraph or two of details and flavor would suffice. What I often do is print out or photocopy the map, and make my own notes on the map directly as to what's important about each room/area. Just 'coz it's published, don't mean it don't need prep...

[Skyscraper]

Marshal:

Regarding how to award XP by the book, it's supposed to be "by encounter". You got different answers in this thread because people here toy around with this (and any other) game to their liking.

Per the DCC rules, awarding XP is per encounter. What does that mean? An encounter can be one battle with monsters, or one battle with monsters that leads into a negotiation with the monster chief; it could be a social event at the duke's court room where the PCs need to convince the duke and his entire court to send military forces to aid an ally duchy under attack by orcs; it could be a thief that crosses a room filled with traps with success to grab the treasure; it could be a race through the city to catch a fleeing burglar. An "encounter" is an event or a short series of tied events; although exceptions exist, e.g. an "encounter" could be a ranger leading a group of adventurers through a wilderness over several days to find a hidden cave.

DCC RPG claims to be for experienced gamers, and a few elements, such as the definition of what represents an encounter, is not provided because it is expected that it is known (or can be found, such as what you're doing now). I guess the alternative, for the writers, would have been to make editorial choices such as providing more basic explanations in their book, but cut out other more advanced information; or to put everything in, but sell the book for a higher amount and consequently reaching less people. I'm comfortable with their choice and where they chose to draw the line, but perhaps you are not. I respect that.

The same can be said about the 1-4 XP range, for each encounter. How do you judge that? The book expects that judges will wing it intuitively. I'm fine with that. If you've DMed or judged many game sessions, you can certainly assess, on a scale of 1-4, how tough an encounter was for the PCs, after it plays out. Was it a walkthrough? If yes, award 1 XP. Have the players been brought close to full-fledged defeat? Award 4 XP. Anything in between? 2 or 3 XP. It's not an exact science and most people don't care, really.

As far as lack of official material, DCC said that it would not yield to the usual splat book bloat that many games suffer from. I.e. you buy one book, the DCC core rulebook, and you're good to go. What they do sell is tons of adventures. You don't like that and would like more official material? I respect that. I like the DCC choice myself, as it doesn't force or incite me to buy anything more than the initial gamebook, and I have not been thrilled at all with the 3E/4E plethora of splat books (that I didn't buy, but got the frequent and mildly annoying "don't you use that book" from players).

As for adventure design: you give one example from one adventure. Have you read several adventures, or are you judging based on this single one? I have bought no DCC adventures, since I deiign my own, but I've read a couple of free ones (in the book, plus another freely provided by the game designers) and they seemed fine to me, although not to my taste (which doesn't mean that they're badly designed).

Overall, DCC has a design philosophy that's I'd summarize as follows (my personal impression only here): give the players a single rulebook filled with advanced rules for playing the game. Cut out anything not necessary. (See the section on skills for example.) Voluntarily leave some room for interpretation so that the game will flex to the desires of group of players. And publish adventures. Whether you like or dislike this approach, what I respect mostly out of it, is that's it been pretty much clear from the outset, they stick to it and give you what they announced.

[Skyscraper]

And then: why only combat?

I hear you. I give XP for overcoming obstacles. That could be finding the needed information by getting the right people drunk, or slaying a giant snake in the way of the goal.

But to be fair, DCC calls for awarding XP "by encounters, not creature or challenge" (pg 359; and it goes on from there). An encounter could be dealing with a tight-lipped sage, or any of a thousand other things that aren't fighting. If it was tricky and took some work on the players' parts, or cost the characters something in terms of possessions or abilities or the like, it's probably worth some XP.

XP -- Not Just For Combat Anymore!™

Yes, I get the encounter approach. In practice however, I rarely see XP distributed for anything other than combat and traps, i.e. that which is clearly set out in the adventure as written. It happens, but proportionately, very little. See the Survivors of Tempesta game where we both play with RC for example. There has been little XP given out outside of combat and traps. I'm fine with that mind you. I did the same as DM when I claimed openly that more than combat would yield XP.

I also dislike that player tricks or PC resource depletion should yield XP. Why? Why does simply not playing the game, whatever you do, result in XP reward? If rewards are clearly set out when you beat creatures up, then players should have a natural tendency to beat creature up. Honestly, I do not wish to push my players in that direction. There are ample combat opportunities, no need to reward it.

I like for just playing the game, to yield XP rewards. This means that, whatever you do, you'll eventually level up. (This also happens in a combat-rewards-XP system, i.e. whoever you beat up, you'll eventually level up.) I however like to follow the flow of the game and, if it so happens that there is not a single battle in two consecutive game sessions, I don't want the players to eventually complain about the slow level progression in the game. Why would they? We had fun, we laughed, we role-played, etc...

[Maxwell Luther]

I think what is missing in this discussion is the understanding that a potential combat encounter is not necessarily defeated just by combat. Sure they may be hostile creatures in the room, but clever characters might find a way to defeat them that doesn't necessarily kill them. Animals and sub-intelligent creatures might be lured away by food, the door to their room might be spiked to prevent them from exiting it, some sort of superstition might be invoked from hiding to make them test morale before they realize the characters are about or the characters might just talk them out of attacking with bribes of gold or aid (after all, half the game is about making deals with extra-planar enemies, so why not make deals with the mortal ones as well).

And according to the rules, the difficulty of the encounter is what determines XP, so a normally difficult combat encounter that could wipe a party out would be worth 4xp if they fought it out. By being clever, the number of XP rewarded goes down (I'd give them 2 if it were easy, but the idea was extremely clever) but they also get that XP for minimal risk and, thus, a better chance for reaching next level, which is its own reward in the very deadly world of DCC. This especially true for modules like People of the Pit, where a shortcut to the bottom that bypasses a whole mess of trouble can be preferable to trying to just muscle ones way through the complex, and is very much in line with the ethos of old school play, where it was the treasure you were after (for XP purposes in that specific case) not endlessly risking your life for measly combat XP.

As for when to award, I tend to give out XP when the PCs leave the dungeon and find someplace to rest, relax and spend some downtime reflecting on their adventures. I don't do level-ups in the middle of a dungeon. This inspires the players to really weigh the consequences of going deeper to get that bit of extra gold and XP vs. regrouping and rearming for a more concerted effort later.

[Skyscraper]

I think what is missing in this discussion is the understanding that a potential combat encounter is not necessarily defeated just by combat.

I think it's understood that defeating an encounter with hostile creatures doesn't necessarily mean battling or killing the creatures. (At least, to me it's understood ) I still call it a combat encounter, for short.

[GnomeBoy]

...And according to the rules, the difficulty of the encounter is what determines XP, so a normally difficult combat encounter that could wipe a party out would be worth 4xp if they fought it out....

Please correct me if I am wrong, but reading this, it sounds like you're basing XP off the perceived difficulty of the encounter beforehand. The game wants you to judge what the difficulty was as it was played through, and award XP accordingly.

• Giant, army-killing behemoth monster meets characters who topple a castle tower on it, which kills it, and they lose no hp nor equipment or anything in doing so = 1 XP.

• Tiny half-dead gnat that nevertheless kills two party members and maims the others = 4 XP.

These are comically extreme examples, to try to make the point clear. Beforehand, we'd probably all judge the gnat encounter to be very easy, and the behemoth encounter to be a possible TPK. But the XP is determined by how it actually plays out, not how it might've or "should've" gone...


And, for what it's worth, I'd still encourage you to dole out XP at least in the funnel adventures. I think at least some of them are purpose-built that the characters reach Level 1 before the end (and might well not survive at all, if not).

[Skyscraper]

• Tiny half-dead gnat that nevertheless kills two party members and maims the others = 4 XP.

Undead, or half-dead? Because an undead gnat lich could be somewhat terrible...

[Maxwell Luther]

...And according to the rules, the difficulty of the encounter is what determines XP, so a normally difficult combat encounter that could wipe a party out would be worth 4xp if they fought it out....

Please correct me if I am wrong, but reading this, it sounds like you're basing XP off the perceived difficulty of the encounter beforehand. The game wants you to judge what the difficulty was as it was played through, and award XP accordingly.

• Giant, army-killing behemoth monster meets characters who topple a castle tower on it, which kills it, and they lose no hp nor equipment or anything in doing so = 1 XP.

• Tiny half-dead gnat that nevertheless kills two party members and maims the others = 4 XP.

These are comically extreme examples, to try to make the point clear. Beforehand, we'd probably all judge the gnat encounter to be very easy, and the behemoth encounter to be a possible TPK. But the XP is determined by how it actually plays out, not how it might've or "should've" gone...

No, I judge based on the way the encounter went, like the rules, I'm just showing the weighing of potential from a player's perspective. A Giant may well die in a couple of rounds of combat due to good luck or strategy on the player's part, but from the perspective of risk management, the experienced character is going to ask beforehand 'how do I benefit in the long term from this situation by charging at a massive giant instead of just going around him in some way?' As I said 'a normally difficult combat encounter that could wipe a party out would be worth 4xp if they fought it out but that might not be the optimal decision based upon the risk of combat and they may be rewarded with the less tangible 'getting to live long enough to see level 2' instead of maximum XP if they choose the latter.

And, for what it's worth, I'd still encourage you to dole out XP at least in the funnel adventures. I think at least some of them are purpose-built that the characters reach Level 1 before the end (and might well not survive at all, if not).

My players really didn't care as there is plenty of 'restock' as far as PCs go form their perspective. They lost 23 characters in SotSS but kept going, throwing level 0 after level 0 into the meat grinder. They found that to be exceedingly fun and really like the characters they finally ended up with because they have, well... character.

[marshal kt]

What's missing is a simple example. The best place to put it, would have been in the 0 level adventure.
"If the characters get past here with no casualties, give them 1 xp each." The newest Star Wars game does this.
I could easily do with out alot of the superfluous art. Art is nice but some of the full page could have easily been half, two-thirds or three-quarter page art for more examples. How wizards gain spells has a long description, yet there isn't more than a paragraph on clerics.

My preferred system is called Savage Worlds. The rule book is $10; that's all you need. You can buy splat books, from worlds to adventures, or create you own. It's for novice and experienced GM's & players alike. It, like DCC has a basic task/target number system. Once you learn it, you apply it to everything.

The lack of needing splat books and cost of only $40 for a complete players & GM book, is PART of the reason I even gave DCC a try.
I normally detest HP and class based games & systems.
HP systems because they're not realistic. A high level character, like a mage; can step off a small cliff and die, consistantly. Whereas a fighter of the same level can consistantly fall off it and survive.

Class based systems because it doesn't allow lateral thinking. Once a mage, always a mage.

The 1st problem DCC still has; but by starting as zero level peasants is fun and comical.
The lack of being only tied to one class, is also what I like about DCC. [Nowhere does it say a character can't switch classes after a level or 2.]

I also like the lack of munchkinism, in DCC. You can't min/max stats. You can't power level you class with feats, stat raises and prestige classes. You can make things challenging to all classes with out overwhelming 1 or more class to challenge another. The inverse is also true, to make it challenging to all classes, 1 or 2 classes easily always pass the test.

[GnomeBoy]

I hate to break it to you, but you're meant to have one Class and only one Class per character. Yes, there is nothing that says you can't multi-class -- but you sure won't find any rules about multi-classing in the book. And unless everyone multi-classes, things could get wonky, since much of each Class's power is front-loaded.

However, if you like, there is an excellent homebrewed multi-classing system, by Mr. Bishop: http://ravencrowking.blogspot.com/2012/ ... evels.html

[Skyscraper]

Thanks for your further thoughts Marshal.

I've heard a lot of good about Savage Worlds, and even downloaded the (simplified?) rules that were free download a year or two ago, when the game came out. Looks like a great game. I'm looking forward to trying it out at the next occasion. But we have a Call of Cthulhu game lined up after our DCC game, so probably not for the immediate future.