Ability modifiers

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Dagonazrael
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Ability modifiers

Post by Dagonazrael » Mon May 28, 2012 3:29 am

Hi all,

I'm sure this has been asked before but:

Do we track the change in luck bonuses for e.g. fumble modifier, when players burn and gain luck?

I know the luck bonus for special ability is fixed at level 0, and I thought this applied to all uses of luck, but then I read on p110 that for mercurial magic tables, you use wizard's luck modifier 'at the time the wizard learns the new spell...

I presume you do change modifiers when other abilities are temporarily affected?

giant
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by giant » Mon May 28, 2012 4:33 am

That is certainly how I read it.

I think in fact that it specifically says that the lucky roll never changes is evidence that other modifiers do change.

Bisikoff
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Bisikoff » Mon May 28, 2012 7:06 am

Dagonazrael wrote:I presume you do change modifiers when other abilities are temporarily affected?
I'd say it depends, but I'd say it's less tracking Luck over time and more being dilligent to note (i.e. write down) the specific Luck modifier in effect at the time the spell is learned.

The section on Luck in chargen (p 19) notes that the Luck modifier received at chargen doesn't change if the Luck score later changes.

From that and the section on spells, I think changes in Luck don't apply retroactively.

caveman
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by caveman » Mon May 28, 2012 8:03 am

I'd say the Luck mod definitely changes. The only thing that stays the same is the Birth Augur.
It's fiddly, but so are all the Ability changes.

TheNobleDrake
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by TheNobleDrake » Mon May 28, 2012 5:28 pm

Yes, as luck lowers (and is restored if the right classes are played) the luck modifier for any purpose not specifically locked in place upon acquisition (birth augur, lucky weapon, and I think the Elf single spell bonus).

In my judging, the modifiers for all abilities lowered (temporarily or otherwise) change to reflect the score... the only thing I don't force recalculation of is HP because it's just outside "easy enough" when you have a character that rolls near to minimum HP and you have to keep that minimum in mind, not just subtract any loses and call it good.

Dagonazrael
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Dagonazrael » Thu May 31, 2012 12:19 pm

Would be good to hear from GG on this?

Dagonazrael
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Dagonazrael » Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:20 pm

Bump

bholmes4
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by bholmes4 » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:28 am

caveman wrote:I'd say the Luck mod definitely changes. The only thing that stays the same is the Birth Augur.
It's fiddly, but so are all the Ability changes.
It has to be this. That second bullet point on p.19 should be re-worded though as it's definitely confusing. However everything else in the book and in the beta discussions suggests the above interpretation is correct.

Dagonazrael
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Dagonazrael » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:55 am

Hmm... Well that note in the mercurial magic section is also misleading in that case. Why point out that it is the luck mod at the time of learning the spell?

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Colin
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Colin » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:11 am

I may just be going out on a limb here, but if you simply want the official answer, have you tried directly PM'ing Joseph or posting the question in the errata thread?

Colin

Dagonazrael
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Dagonazrael » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:17 am

Thanks for this everyone. I appreciate this has already been thrashed through before, and I think my key issue is resolved: I want to be playing the game how it is meant to be played, and I am prepared to be swayed by what is clearly a majority interpretation. We will change the luck mod for criticals, fumbles etc. as luck fluctuates.

The secondary issue, though, is consistency in the explanation in the rule book, and I'm not entirely satisfied with that.

The text on mercurial magic on p. 110 is still misleading. If, as a rule, we change the luck modifier as luck changes (apart from the exceptions you mention that are fixed at character creation), there is no need to point out here that it is the luck modifier at the time of learning the spell - given that we almost always apply the current luck modifier, rather than a fixed one, wouldn't we naturally do so here?

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Raven_Crowking
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Raven_Crowking » Sat Jun 02, 2012 9:26 am

Dagonazrael wrote:Thanks for this everyone. I appreciate this has already been thrashed through before, and I think my key issue is resolved: I want to be playing the game how it is meant to be played, and I am prepared to be swayed by what is clearly a majority interpretation. We will change the luck mod for criticals, fumbles etc. as luck fluctuates.

The secondary issue, though, is consistency in the explanation in the rule book, and I'm not entirely satisfied with that.

The text on mercurial magic on p. 110 is still misleading. If, as a rule, we change the luck modifier as luck changes (apart from the exceptions you mention that are fixed at character creation), there is no need to point out here that it is the luck modifier at the time of learning the spell - given that we almost always apply the current luck modifier, rather than a fixed one, wouldn't we naturally do so here?
Mercurial magic is rolled using the current Luck modifier at the time you learn the spell. The outcome does not change later because your Luck changes. If it said to modify by current Luck, there would be questions about whether or not the mercurial effect changes later.

AFAICT, that's why it is worded as it is, and that seems clear to me.
SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.

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finarvyn
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by finarvyn » Sat Jun 02, 2012 6:16 pm

Most aspects of luck change as the character evolves, but as has been noted the Birth Augur does not. Simply too many issues came up in playtest if this was allowed to change, and it just made sense to keep it fixed.

Raven_Croaking is correct about Mercurial magic. When you learn a spell, just make a note of your current luck modifier. Even if the modifier changes later, the modifier to that particular spell remains the same. As such it works a little different from Birth Augur; it's a fixed number but not the same fixed number for all spells.

Hope that helps.
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Ieuane
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Re: Ability modifiers

Post by Ieuane » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:20 am

Agility and Missile Damage -

On the character sheets on the beta pdf, the Agility mod is added to Missile damage. In the released rules, any mention of this is either absent, or I missed it.

Looks like it was cut, anyone know otherwise?

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