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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:52 am 
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Chaos-Summoning Sorcerer
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What is the story behind Brave Halfling Publishing and them not sending out printed versions of their Appendix N Adventures? I ordered mine back in May and was told that the first adventure would be sent to me in a few weeks? Hello...it has been months and still not one printed adventure. Their web site was taken down for maintenance in August and is till down. He does not return emails nor calls. Just about done with this company no matter how nice the person on the other end is... :cry:

Anyone else still not get those promised printed Appendix N Adventures?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:08 am 
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Check this out: http://carpgp.blogspot.hu/

It's interesting that my Delving Deeper box set and the first batch of Appendix N Adventures Toolkit arrived months ago in Hungary, while many Americans didn't get anything so far.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:44 am 
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Hungary ??
:shock:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 8:43 am 
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I can say that I was hoping to have printed versions by now, but I do not.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:49 am 
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I'm waiting for a Delving Deeper box set I ordered in September of last year, plus some other stuff from his store, and the modules from this Kickstarter. He's been updating the Kickstarter page with his progress on things. He's had a tough year. I probably wouldn't buy anything from him again, though. Seems like a nice fellow, but maybe not a good business man.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:34 am 
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Tyrant Master (Administrator)
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I have to admit, I find this thread more than a little upsetting.

I've never lost a child, but my niece lost a child several years ago. I guarantee you things were not back to normal five months later.

If anybody wants to write off BHP, that's your decision to make. But publicly asking "what gives? why don't I have my product?" is insensitive, at the least.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:23 pm 
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If you weren't part of the original Kickstarter to get the modules, you probably wouldn't know his wife had a miscarriage, etc. (It was mentioned as an update there, I think, but not on his web store.) I wouldn't assume people are going out of their way to be jerks.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:46 pm 
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Deft-Handed Cutpurse
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People have been really patient with Jon but it's been 13+ months and the vast majority of the Appendix N backers haven't received a single printed page from him. It's been excuse after excuse after excuse. And it's not just the DCC adventures that haven't arrived, his Delving Deeper customers had to wait absolutely ages for their stuff. The Appendix N kickstarter has been a total joke and he's broken promise after promise. His backers gave him money in good faith. Jon needs to fulfill his end of the bargain. Print the modules and post them, simple.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:50 pm 
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Tyrant Master (Administrator)
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It was addressed here on this forum, too: http://www.goodman-games.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=44466

I'm not assuming anyone is setting out to be a jerk. And anyone wanting to just not do business with BHP again, well, that's a choice I suppose anyone who's ordered from them is going to have to consider for themselves where they stand.

I am saying it is insensitive to publicly moan about a late book or whatever, and paint the company as flaky, under these circumstances. It's like flatly saying to someone who's suffered a serious loss "just get over it" -- and not saying it to their face, but in a way that will get back to them.

Somebody misjudges the workload on what they've promised because they are inexperienced -- yeah, okay, that's an issue a customer might moan about.

But this...?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:54 pm 
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Let me put it this way:

If the tone of this had been something more like "jeez, it's been a long time -- I hope he's okay, and can start getting things out soon", it wouldn't irk me.

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Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:36 pm 
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My wife and I lost a child a few years ago and it broke our hearts. Eventually we returned to work because we had to pay the bills, the mortgage and provide for our other kids. We had made committments and we needed to fulfill them. I entered into an agreement with Brave Halfling via the Kickstarter, it is not unreasonable to expect Jon to stick to the agreement that was made 13 months ago with hundreds of backers and fulfill his side of the bargain.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:50 pm 
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I haven't been waiting around since the kickstarter - but I HAVE been waiting months for an annual sub order.

My only comment on this is that he seems like a decent guy and I am glad he is being open about what is going on. He didn't have to share the intimate personal details of his life, and could have just trashed the whole thing and wound it up long ago. I probably would have in his position.

Instead he has hired two people and is trying to make it right.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:06 pm 
Do any of you actually know him, other than what he's posted on the website?
Have any of you ever purchased products from him before? Did they arrive on time?
Has anyone searched online for specifics used as explanations/excuses? Not his website, because that's his own posting.
Does he have a Facebook page? Twitter? Other online presence?

If the all or most of the answers above are no, then he pessimst in me says, ummm, scam?

I've been on Ebay since it 1st started and a gaming trade site called Bartertown about the same length of time.
Before Ebay inacted alot of it's rules, this happened a lot.
On Bartertown, it stills happens. People claim everything from family deaths, to cancer, divorce to anything you can think of as to why they haven't shipped them item[s] owed.

I'm not wanting to stir up anything here, but I've seen this as a legitimate problem and also as a scam. He can be either. That's why Kickstarter warns everyone to be careful when they give money.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:24 am 
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marshal kt wrote:
Do any of you actually know him, other than what he's posted on the website?

Have any of you ever purchased products from him before? Did they arrive on time?
While I've never met John in person, I have talked to him on the phone on several occasions. He and BHP are the group that put out the boxed set versions (and hardback) for my Swords & Wizardry Whitebox rules set a couple of years ago. I've always found him to be an honest and hard-working guy, and he was able to hand-assemble and ship several hundred WB sets safely in the past. Until he jumped into the Delving Deeper RPG at the same time as the XPloreers RPG at the same time as the DCC Appendix N project he was doing fine. He seems to have expanded way too fast.

Clearly he's had some major bad luck recently, and if he's trying to scam anyone he's totally fooled me. He also (until a month ago or so) was a one-man publishing company and has been clearly over extended and overwhelmed by the projects he's trying to juggle. Hopefully the assistants he hired will get things back on track.

The thing about kickstarters is that this has opened up a whole new group of self-publishers who may have little experience. Many of them have worked out just fine, but some are getting into things that are a lot bigger than they imagine. If Goodman Games decides to put out a module they have a process in place -- they have writers and printers and artists and editors and distributers and have done it before on a large scale, but one-man operations don't have those resources or that kind of connections. Frankly, I'm surprised that more kickstart projects don't end up in the same situation as BHP, where it sounded so easy at the start and just is so hard to put all of the parts together at the end. A breakdown at any level (writers or printers or artists or editors or whatever) and the product stalls in production.

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DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:32 am 
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Here you go: https://www.facebook.com/john.adams.16718?fref=ts

He already published a few rpg products in the past, like the Swords & Wizardry Whitebox boxed set or the X-Plorers boxed set. I ordered and pre-ordered stuff from him before and got everything so far. Once a package went missing but he sent another for free with more expensive shipping. I found him to be a helpful, but very busy guy. Things are slow at Brave Halfling, that's true. It took more than a year before I got my pre-ordered Delving Deeper boxed set.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 5:38 am 
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Brave Halfling has definitely put out product in the past - I have some sitting on my shelf at home! As some have noted I think he's just had a bad string of luck just as he started to expand the Brave Halfling offerings.

I went in for $20 on the Appendix N stuff on the Kickstarter. So far I have received 4 PDFs, plus a bonus revised Ruins of Ramat adventure for 3rd level. I have received enough communications from BHP and John to know that yes, things are delayed, but he seems to be pushing things forward by pure will - including bringing a couple people on to help him with shipping. Given that I have PDF versions, have already run some of the adventures, and that he is still communicating with Kickstart backers, I am not going to begrudge him even for the current lateness. I feel he has trickled me enough product and such along the way that I will still end up getting a good deal out of this.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 6:10 am 
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Thank you, IronWolf, you have captured my thoughts.

I am looking forward to seeing the print copies, but I have the pdfs right now. Product is moving. I also know that John has gone through some tough times, which I am only thankful that I have not had to go through.

I did writing for Dragon's Hoard (Angels, Daemons, & Beings Between and The Revelation of Mulmo), and, while I have yet to receive print copies, I do know that Sean Conners, the lead developer, had unexpected difficulties related to printers which delayed that project. Delays happen.

I planned on having Prince Charming, Reanimator out firmly by the 23rd of this month, but I was a bit depressed in late August and early September, and it affected my writing. I could push to make the deadline, but the product would be pretty poor. And even though PCR will be free in pdf, I would rather be late with a good product than on time with a lousy one.

It's tough. It is disappointing when things are late. You can obviously vote with your dollars. If you feel that strongly about it, you should. But I have to say that I like the products I have seen so far, and I expect that there is more cool stuff coming from BHP once John gets back on his feet and caught up.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:41 am 
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Oh, and value added - John Adams commissioned a little something for the print version of Vile Worm.

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Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:37 am 
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I like Brave Halfling and John Adams. To those of us who have been around for a while in the OSR ect..he has already proved his good intentions and we know him to be a stand up guy. I have bought many things from him and yeah almost all the (New) things arrived late but that really wasn't to be unexpected from a one man show.

Now it seems the guys like John have a wider audience.That's a good thing as they can make more money and reach more people BUT...they will more and more encounter people who don't know them from Jack,are unwilling to make allowances for a friend because..they are not friends.

More and more success brings Business and business brings a cut and dry"Live up to your promise AND our expectations or burn" attitude.

People don't care if the manager of Wallyworld is getting a divorce or has a sick child,the advertised sale BETTER be there,or else.

So in a way,its a growing sign that the OSR and smaller publishers are doing well that uncaring unknowing consumers expect a product on time and that it meets expectations.

Those of us that are friends with said publishers are certainly free to defend them and a death in the family is certainly something to consider and hopefully give someone the benefit of a doubt about.(personally I would have flaked and returned everyone's money and then disappeared for a few years) but it isn't always such a easy to understand thing like the unfortunate John Adams has had to endure. Sometimes its a fire or flood or broke printer. Sometimes it's just that small companies can easily overextend themselves.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:51 pm 
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To be completely fair, we have all spent a lot of time on a game heavily influenced by the writings of Jack Vance. If we were not on the lookout for all kinds of scams and contrivances, deceits and devices, that would in fact be unusual. Everyone knows that the NPC tied up in the haunted house is really an assassin; the NPC looking to adventure with you at the inn is really a thief ready to take your hard-won gold as soon as you show a moment of weakness.

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SoBH pbp:

Cathbad the Meek (herbalist Wizard 1): AC 9; 4 hp; S 7, A 7, St 10, P 17, I 13, L 8; Neutral; Club, herbs, 50' rope, 50 cp; -1 to melee attack rolls. Hideous scar.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 1:59 pm 
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
To be completely fair, we have all spent a lot of time on a game heavily influenced by the writings of Jack Vance. If we were not on the lookout for all kinds of scams and contrivances, deceits and devices, that would in fact be unusual. Everyone knows that the NPC tied up in the haunted house is really an assassin; the NPC looking to adventure with you at the inn is really a thief ready to take your hard-won gold as soon as you show a moment of weakness.
Oh, I'm not so sure about this. When I read the tales of "Cugel the Clever" I find that I spot the scams, contrivances, deceits and devices but he doesn't ever seem to. In the real world I can never be sure if I'm Cugel or the reader. :lol:

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DCC Minister of Propaganda; Deputized 6/8/11
DCC RPG playtester 2011, DCC Lankhmar trivia contest winner 2015; OD&D player since 1975

"The worthy GM never purposely kills players' PCs, He presents opportunities for the rash and unthinking players to do that all on their own."
-- Gary Gygax
"Don't ask me what you need to hit. Just roll the die and I will let you know!"
-- Dave Arneson


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 20, 2013 4:58 pm 
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Raven_Crowking wrote:
Everyone knows that the NPC tied up in the haunted house is really an assassin.

You're saying there was someone in there I was supposed to rescue...?

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Playing RPGs since '77 • Quasi-occasional member of the Legion of 8th-Level Fighters.

Link: Here Be 100+ DCC Monsters

bygrinstow.com


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 2:40 pm 
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Don't forget that with services like Kickstarter, if the project falls through amazon still takes their cut. So, you really _can't_ refund everything to the backers. Honestly, I think the OSR would be best off using a p500 style system a la GMT and MMP wargame companies or along the lines that Michael Curtis and Goblinoid did for Majus-have it written first and just source the crowd to get it published.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2013 3:31 pm 
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Skars wrote:
Don't forget that with services like Kickstarter, if the project falls through amazon still takes their cut. So, you really _can't_ refund everything to the backers. Honestly, I think the OSR would be best off using a p500 style system a la GMT and MMP wargame companies or along the lines that Michael Curtis and Goblinoid did for Majus-have it written first and just source the crowd to get it published.


Not only that, but get rid of the stupid stretch goal system, and close the project to new backers when the funding goal is reached.

Do what you said you would do, within the budget you set for yourself.

As someone with a project and delivery management background the system of (potentially) unlimited backer funds and codified scope creep that is baked into kickstarter astounds and horrifies me.

/kickstarter rant


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 29, 2013 6:06 am 
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The print modules are now available to buy online and in retail stores. The Kickstarter backers on the other hand still don't have their printed modules. That's a kick in the teeth for those of us who backed the Kickstarter. I'll never buy a thing from Brave Halfling again. All my trust in them has gone. :x :roll:


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