Useless 4e speculation

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Warduke
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Useless 4e speculation

Post by Warduke » Wed Jul 18, 2007 5:41 pm

i, for one, am worried about what will become of the dccs when hasbro decides to move on to 4th edition.

will they pull the license? will dccs vanish once again leaving us stuck with adventures written by the same folks that make mr. potato head?

(no knock on mr. potato head. that dude one tpk'd my entire party. spud bomb.)

but according to enworld we will have 3.5 edition products at least through april which means (counts fingers) at least 9 more months of dccs. we should average another 10 or more, right? please?

here's the link

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3 ... tcount=103
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Re: Useless 4e speculation

Post by ChristinaStiles » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:31 pm

Warduke wrote:i, for one, am worried about what will become of the dccs when hasbro decides to move on to 4th edition.

will they pull the license? will dccs vanish once again leaving us stuck with adventures written by the same folks that make mr. potato head?
I don't believe they can revoke the OGL license. They may not allow others to do 4th-edition stuff, but everything else is already out of the bag and they can't pull it back in.

In that regard, if Goodman Games wants to keep on doing 3.5 adventures, they certainly can.

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Re: Useless 4e speculation

Post by islestrike » Wed Jul 18, 2007 8:31 pm

Warduke wrote:i, for one, am worried about what will become of the dccs when hasbro decides to move on to 4th edition.
You worry too much. :wink:

There's lots that could be done ...DCCs could continue on as C&C modules for one which I'm sure would make a lot folks happy. They could be published as OSRIC modules for another, though that might take some time to build to the current publishing levels. They could continue on as adventures for GGs own Dungeoneer. To me it's the look and feel of the books that makes them what they are, the artwork, and of course the adventures and top notch writers like Harley. :)

This jamesmishler fellow wrote a good (informed) opinion piece on why 4E might not be such a slam dunk as 3.0/3.5 was back in the day. Here it is:

http://p208.ezboard.com/Alive-and-well/ ... =580.topic

Basically there is a lot vying for young gamer's attentions these days (he even forgot to mention DiabloIII will probably hit around the time 4E does). Anyways point being maybe 4E will continue being the standard, but maybe it won't!

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Post by guslandt » Thu Jul 19, 2007 4:14 am

Wizards heavily implied at February's D&D Experience that 4e will not happen in 2008, so I think we've got plenty of time.
Specifically, they said in regards to 4th edition:
"It's going to come at some point. It's a long ways away. You'll get an announcement when that happens, but it's a long ways away. We have a lot of good stuff coming out through 2008."

I think we're safe for another year & a half at least. :)

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Post by GnomeBoy » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:26 am

I think it's possible that a 4e would not be a radical departure from 3.x, just as 1e and 2e were compatable (I've never done a real comparison, having played 1e in the 70s and 2e in the 90s, but I've seen convention games listed with 1st/2nd AD&D in the System line). At least I never noticed any glaring departures, just new stuff, like Proficiencies.

It could hew close to the Star Wars Saga Edition game, which tweaks basic d20 into something more streamlined and more flexible in character creation for choosing your class features.

Even if that weren't the model, I'd imagine not much work to adapt current modules to a new version of D&D.

The question is, would they cancel the OGL? It's theirs, they could pull it if they wanted to, but I don't think it has hurt them, so why not update it and continue...?
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Re: Useless 4e speculation

Post by Cardinal » Thu Jul 19, 2007 9:56 am

islestrike wrote: ...DCCs could continue on as C&C modules for one which I'm sure would make a lot folks happy.
well, *I* would be happy, that's for sure! ;)

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Post by SavageRobby » Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:51 am

GnomeBoy wrote:The question is, would they cancel the OGL? It's theirs, they could pull it if they wanted to, but I don't think it has hurt them, so why not update it and continue...?
As far as I understand it - and I'm not a lawyer, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night - they can't really cancel the OGL. It is a perpetual license (section 4) and even if future versions are released that modify it, one can use previous versions, and anything distributed under any version of the license is still considered to be released under the license (section 9 - basically, their way of saying they can't redo the license more restrictively later, and immediately hose every other publisher).

However, they certainly could opt not to release 4e under the OGL.

(I suspect the wording/concepts of the rules of 4e would have to be significantly different than 3x to actually block publishers from the legal ability to make products mechanically compatible with 4e, since if the two versions were similar enough in terminology then a publisher could simply release 4e compatible products by using the OGL, which grants them the right to use open content. That would be something interesting to see.)

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Post by Save Vs. Death Ray » Sat Jul 21, 2007 10:34 am

Savagerobby's understanding matches my own. I sincerely hope that:

A) 4e madness is actually a ways away still.

B) If/when it does come, and if it is closed, Wizards has the good sense to license Goodman Games to continue producing DCCs.

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Post by ChristinaStiles » Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:55 am

Save Vs. Death Ray wrote:
B) If/when it does come, and if it is closed, Wizards has the good sense to license Goodman Games to continue producing DCCs.
I'd be very surprised if they allowed anyone a license this go-round. With the magazines going back and Dragonlance, I think they are pulling everything back to them so they can be the only producer of 4e material.
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Post by Eryx » Thu Jul 26, 2007 5:00 pm

While I'm not usually a naysayer, I really hope that we don't see a 4th edition for at least another 4 or 5 years. The current edition is still more than suitable (and I know that when the time comes I will stick with 3.5).

We've barely had 3.X and despite the fanboys, I think that a 4th ed anytime in the next couple years will be a bad move for WotC. Maybe its just me, but I don't think the customer base will accept it on a large enough scale.

Anyways...

WotC can't revoke the OGL to my limited knowledge so I think we're stuck with DCC's for a long time to come. :D
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Post by jason.richardson » Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:24 am

Maybe Goodman Games will write their DCC for the upcoming HackMaster 5th edition system once it is released.

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Post by kenwig » Mon Aug 06, 2007 6:18 am

I don't own Star Wars Saga Edition, but a close friend does. It basically looks like Star Wars Minis to me. I'm a D&D minis player and play weekly. However, I'll be the first one to say its a dumbed down version of the D&D RPG game and I would hate to see 4E be like that.

My local group speculates that WOTC is "testing the waters" with Star Wars Saga Edition to see how 4E might play out.

As other folks have said, you don't have to switch. Many people still play old versions of the game. I moved from 1e to 3.5 myself. I skipped 2e and 3e all together.

For Hasbro, its a business decision. Can they sell the same books with a new cover and a few new words/rules? If they think the answer is yes, then they'll do it. Its all about the bottom line of the company and has little to do with "the love of the game".

Personally, I think the number and frequency of hardcover books from WOTC is overwhelming. Most folks don't have the cash flow to buy every single new book, and if they did have the cash... probably don't have time to read or use all that material.

Anyway, that's my 2cp.

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Post by ynnen » Mon Aug 06, 2007 10:34 am

I have a strong feeling that WotC will seal the borders, so to speak, and either eliminate the open nature of the rules altogether, or do a very limited licensing situation like you mention. I've got a hunch they'll be moving to a web-fulfillment model for content - perhaps sticking wth core books in hardcopy as now, but moving to a virtual playing space, allowing players to play live via the web with players all over, trying to leverage the MMORPG model and apply it to traditional table top gaming...

Purchase access to the rules you want for a monthly fee, use their online game engine to DM games. I'm envisioning a very robust online RPG tool to manage mechancis while players and DM communicate via chat or some VOIP technology... Storage space to upload images or handouts. Downloadable widgets to create maps and move figures on a virtual playing field. Electronic modules available for download/install with all the rules, expansions and items needed for quick play, etc.

I could be way off, and perhaps it's going to be unveiled as the next step of their miniatures line, moving toward a lower barrier of entry, more visual gameplay style, and much more hack-n-slash gaming than RPGing - making it more familiar and accessible to a younger fan base exposed to console and computer style gaming. A Diablo 2 sort of experience, if you will.

Regardless, I'm sure it's going to be a significant change for many people - but do you think folks will completely dismiss 3.5? Since the OGL/SRD will still "remain" for 3.5, I can't see it becoming depricated like other rules systems. And players have literally $1,000s invested in the game. Surely they won't be so quick to dump their collections to latch on to 4th edtion until it's had quite some time to prove itself?

Anyway. All I know is the RPG industry is going to be very interesting for the next 18 months.
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