Best monster, treasure books to supplement DCC with?

[RabidWookie]

The DCC rule book instructs us to use existing D&D books for Treasure and Monster info; which books do you guys find are best for this purpose and most innately compatible with DCC? I assume anything third or fourth edition D&D is out due to feats and powers, which leaves 1st, 2nd, and 5th ed along with third party material.

[bighara]

http://www.goodman-games.com/4375preview.html

[RabidWookie]

http://www.goodman-games.com/4375preview.html

That's neat, but I was thinking more along the lines of Monster Manuals.

[Judge Perky]

That's what it is.

[RabidWookie]

That's what it is.

It's a 32 page random monster generator.

[Zargon]

The DCC rule book instructs us to use existing D&D books for Treasure and Monster info; which books do you guys find are best for this purpose and most innately compatible with DCC? I assume anything third or fourth edition D&D is out due to feats and powers, which leaves 1st, 2nd, and 5th ed along with third party material.

The Random Esoteric Creature Generator, is not a monster manual nor is it innately compatible with DCC. But it is a neat book that offers a multitude of combinations for you to create your own monster builds, if you have the time.

There is only one print book that I can think of which is both innately compatible with DCC and which is useful as a monster manual, and that is Critters, Creatures and Denizens. You can buy the physical book for a mere $14.99. The one thing you won't find in the book is treasure tables. I don't use these, but if I did I would reference any early D&D edition, LL, or just use an online random generator.

[Jobe Bittman]

Page 393 recommends using treasure tables form other sources but I see no mention of using a monster manual apart from the Random Esoteric Creature Generator. Where is the reference about monster manuals?

[GnomeBoy]

I assume anything third or fourth edition D&D is out due to feats and powers

That is not an assumption I would make. While DCC doesn't use feats, monsters certainly have powers, and it's no effort at all to count any feats as being more powers of the monster...

So, a Manticore in 3e...

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 6d10+24 (57 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Claw +10 melee (2d4+5) or 6 spikes +8 ranged (1d8+2/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (2d4+5) and bite +8 melee (1d8+2);
or 6 spikes +8 ranged (1d8+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spikes
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +9, Survival +1
Feats: Flyby Attack, Multiattack, TrackB, Weapon Focus (spikes)
Environment: Warm marshes
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pride (3-6)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil


...becomes a Manticore in DCC:

Init +2
Melee Atk
• claw +10 (2d4+5)
• bite +8 (1d8+2)
Ranged Atk
• spikes +8 (1d8+2)
AC 17
HD 6d10+24
MV 30, fly 50
Act 2d20
SP darkvision, track by scent
Fort +9
Ref +7
Will +3
AL L

That's not definitive, and could certainly be DCC-ified further -- but as an on-the-fly conversion, it totally works. Flyby Attack just becomes "move as normal, make attack, use second Action Die to move further". Multiattack would be using both Action Dice for attacks in the same round. If you know what the feats can do, then that's what the creature can do in DCC.

[RabidWookie]

Cool, are the feats explained in the monster entries?

I recently saw the 3.5 magic item compendium; has anyone tried using it with DCC and had success?

[GnomeBoy]

Cool, are the feats explained in the monster entries?

Some are. Some are in the Monster Manuals, because they are "monster feats" (like Awesome Blow and Flyby Attack in the back of the MM). Also, d20srd.org is your friend...

[MonsterSlayer]

I assume anything third or fourth edition D&D is out due to feats and powers

That is not an assumption I would make. While DCC doesn't use feats, monsters certainly have powers, and it's no effort at all to count any feats as being more powers of the monster...

So, a Manticore in 3e...

Size/Type: Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 6d10+24 (57 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 17 (-1 size, +2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+15
Attack: Claw +10 melee (2d4+5) or 6 spikes +8 ranged (1d8+2/19-20)
Full Attack: 2 claws +10 melee (2d4+5) and bite +8 melee (1d8+2);
or 6 spikes +8 ranged (1d8+2/19-20)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spikes
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +3
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 19, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +5, Spot +9, Survival +1
Feats: Flyby Attack, Multiattack, TrackB, Weapon Focus (spikes)
Environment: Warm marshes
Organization: Solitary, pair, or pride (3-6)
Challenge Rating: 5
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil


...becomes a Manticore in DCC:

Init +2
Melee Atk
• claw +10 (2d4+5)
• bite +8 (1d8+2)
Ranged Atk
• spikes +8 (1d8+2)
AC 17
HD 6d10+24
MV 30, fly 50
Act 2d20
SP darkvision, track by scent
Fort +9
Ref +7
Will +3
AL L

That's not definitive, and could certainly be DCC-ified further -- but as an on-the-fly conversion, it totally works. Flyby Attack just becomes "move as normal, make attack, use second Action Die to move further". Multiattack would be using both Action Dice for attacks in the same round. If you know what the feats can do, then that's what the creature can do in DCC.

I agree with your method and have picked up some 3.x books for NPCs. But don't you feel like the hp and saves are a bit inflated in a straight conversion like this? That was always my problem with converting 3.x to DCC and may well be the issue the OP is having. I mean I have seen 15th level+ NPCs with hp. (Edit) in 100+ range well exceeding what most DCC warriors could hope to achieve RAW. This seems to be due to 3.x feat bloat.

I could be wrong and hope you can enlighten me as well.

I've wondered about this OP too.

[GnomeBoy]

I agree with your method and have picked up some 3.x books for NPCs. But don't you feel like the hp and saves are a bit inflated in a straight conversion like this? That was always my problem with converting 3.x to DCC and may well be the issue the OP is having. I mean I have seen 15th level+ NPCs with hp. (Edit) in 100+ range well exceeding what most DCC warriors could hope to achieve RAW. This seems to be due to 3.x feat bloat.

I could be wrong and hope you can enlighten me as well.

I've wondered about this OP too.

Well, this was an "on-the-fly" conversion, just to show how the numbers and abilities could carry straight over for creatures. If you're talking about a human NPC or the like, I'd push the numbers around more, just to make them fit in better. But monsters--who the hell knows what they can or can't do? It's not like they're in a book that the characters have studied up on and know all about them!

Most NPCs (IMO) are going to be basically 0-Level characters. That's easy to run on the fly...

If you're talking about major villains... well, what bargains with the devil of their choice have they made that got them those 100 hp?

Very often, 'more story' solves inconsistencies...

[RabidWookie]

Has anyone tried using the AD&D Encyclopedia Magica with DCC?

[Clangador]

I use the AD&D Monster Manual by Gary Gygax. Always have, always will. With that said, whatever monster stats you come up with are just fine for your game. In DCC, monsters are suppose to be highly variable to keep the players guessing and ad a sense of fear and unknown to the game.

[Stretch]

Something else that might help in conversion is the one page sheet from people them with monsters. It was also featured in an issue of Crawl (#6 maybe...the monster issue.)

http://peoplethemwithmonsters.blogspot. ... urces.html


As far as the Encyclopedia Magica or really any monster book from any company, you can use any of them. As Gnomeboy has shown you can convert most of them on the fly or if you want to be a bit more deliberate and planned sit down before hand and convert them over. Wouldn't be too hard to create a spreadsheet template that you could just plug in your values and make your own little monster book.

The best advice is to just to look at the creature and think about what you want to accomplish with it. Does it need to be very strong? Clever? Stat it out and try it. If when you first introduce it at the table and you find it too easy, bump it up a bit when they run into the next group. The first group were more outcasts and losers. Now ya have to face the A-team. I often look through generic monster indexes, mythological books (especially from other cultures I am not familiar with) and then just create it. As a jumping off point I will look in the core book for something similar and then riff off of that.

As an example I picked up a free monster from Outland games for their Mutant epoch series called the Back Hatcher. The stat block is nothing that I can really use. So I am looking at the Giant lizards section of the main book and will probably combine it with swarm rules from the bat section when I sit down to stat it out. I will add extras as I see fit to match concept. The great thing is that this creature came with a chart for various other mutations. So once it is statt-ed up and used in the game I can then adjust the stats and use the mutation charts to keep the players guessing the next time they see this type of creature.

Something else that might help is the following:

http://www.kickassistan.net/2013/02/mon ... e-diy.html

This might help out with how you might approach alterations of the same type of creature.

In the end, as far as I am concerned, the best part of this game, as well as a lot of the OSR is the DIY feel to it. It can be intimidating at first but that's only till you realize that you can't screw it up.

[GnomeBoy]

And of course, it goes without saying, the BEST monster "book" is linked in my sig.

Who said that? Not me -- it goes without saying...

[NJPDX]

I'll just go ahead and put in a plug for "The Mother of All Encounter Tables" and "The Mother of All Treasure Tables" from Frog God Games/Necromancer (out of print, but still available in pdf format).

Bear in mind, both were made for d20 gaming back in the 3.x days of D&D, but they both have been helpful for quickly generating random critters and loot on the fly. For monsters you'll still need some sort of Monster Manual (or whatever) for stats.

[phg]

I'll just go ahead and put in a plug for "The Mother of All Encounter Tables" and "The Mother of All Treasure Tables" from Frog God Games/Necromancer (out of print, but still available in pdf format).

I used to play DnD miniatures with Greg Ragland, the author of TMofET, and he signed mine with an encouraging "Roll well and kill them all!". It's a great book. It really would have benefited from a Table of Contents and an Index, what with all the tables and sub-tables necessary for this kind of resource. Maybe the PDF got updated eventually?

[NJPDX]

I'll just go ahead and put in a plug for "The Mother of All Encounter Tables" and "The Mother of All Treasure Tables" from Frog God Games/Necromancer (out of print, but still available in pdf format).

I used to play DnD miniatures with Greg Ragland, the author of TMofET, and he signed mine with an encouraging "Roll well and kill them all!". It's a great book. It really would have benefited from a Table of Contents and an Index, what with all the tables and sub-tables necessary for this kind of resource. Maybe the PDF got updated eventually?

Just checked my pdf and it has an index and a bookmarked table of contents.

[fodderator]

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