Goodman Games

How lethal is DDC as compared to other old-schoolish games?

The game look pretty lethal to me, and it seems right that it is. I am not arguing with that.

Just asking: as a player (or even a GM) how are your character(s) stayin' alive? (Or attempting to do it.)

Exceptionally lethal to 0 levels.

It's actually kind of hard to die as a 1st level + character. It is really easy though to go down and be "sort of dead" and watch your physical stats waste away as your body is rolled over continuously.

i guess it depends on what you pit your characters against. People get different results with the game. Not sure why, could be DM styles. Do people who are 1e centric get different results than those who are 4e centric?

I really like the recover the body mechanics. I think that they are great for that pulp-action feel.

I find that players still don't like to be knocked to 0, and I find that sometimes the PCs really are dead when their bodies are turned over. That happened just last game day for me, when a character used a whack of Luck to survive a spider bite, and then was too low in that critical resource to make his Luck check.

In a previous session, a character was killed by an evil snowman with a snowball. In that same session, on PC died because of another PC's Mercurial Magic roll.

And so it goes....

Comparing lethality to other old-school styled games that I know about, I have to say that DCC is the least lethal - assuming the same style of encounter design and GM playstyle across the board.

Some classes in DCC receive more hit points than their old-school counterparts (warriors d12 vs. the d8 of BECMI D&D or d10 of AD&D; thieves d6 vs. the d4 of BECMI D&D, I think clerics have a bump compared to BECMI but can't remember for sure).

Everyone benefits from the rule of being able to be healed from 0 HP if the healing happens within their level rounds from reaching 0 HP, while old-school D&D characters would just be dead.

Likewise, everyone has a chance to have their body recovered and turn out not to actually have died, where old-school D&D characters would just be dead.

It is strange for it to be true, but despite higher potential damage and amazingly brutal critical hits flying around DCC (past the intentionally gory 0-level portion) is actually one of the least lethal fantasy RPGs I've ever played.

just don't pull your punches and give your players an opportunity to be DCC Superheroes and it'll be a good lethal game. There isn't any reason your goblin army won't be able to plough through the DCC party if their acting too tough. Just be aggressive and smash em up.

TheNobleDrake wrote:Comparing lethality to other old-school styled games that I know about, I have to say that DCC is the least lethal - assuming the same style of encounter design and GM playstyle across the board.

Some classes in DCC receive more hit points than their old-school counterparts (warriors d12 vs. the d8 of BECMI D&D or d10 of AD&D; thieves d6 vs. the d4 of BECMI D&D, I think clerics have a bump compared to BECMI but can't remember for sure).

Everyone benefits from the rule of being able to be healed from 0 HP if the healing happens within their level rounds from reaching 0 HP, while old-school D&D characters would just be dead.

Likewise, everyone has a chance to have their body recovered and turn out not to actually have died, where old-school D&D characters would just be dead.

It is strange for it to be true, but despite higher potential damage and amazingly brutal critical hits flying around DCC (past the intentionally gory 0-level portion) is actually one of the least lethal fantasy RPGs I've ever played.

This is accurate, to a point. For example, last night, a halfling in my group triggered the ruby trap in Jewels of the Carnifex (despite knowing it was there, he watched another char lose a finger to it several minutes before) and lost *4* fingers on one hand. Oops. Healing heals his lost hit points, of course, but not the fingers... although that's theoretically possible with a 30+ result on Restore Vitality (level 2 Cleric spell), they're a looooong way from having access to that spell, heh. So the character retired from the adventuring life.

I also did this with a character in RC's PBP Barrowmaze game, after he burned all his Luck. Though he was a pretty decent Level 1 Dwarf, having a severely reduced Luck score was just going to get him killed in the long run, so he wisely retired to ply his smithing trade.

beermotor wrote:This is accurate, to a point. For example, last night, a halfling in my group triggered the ruby trap in Jewels of the Carnifex (despite knowing it was there, he watched another char lose a finger to it several minutes before) and lost *4* fingers on one hand. Oops. Healing heals his lost hit points, of course, but not the fingers... although that's theoretically possible with a 30+ result on Restore Vitality (level 2 Cleric spell), they're a looooong way from having access to that spell, heh. So the character retired from the adventuring life.

I also did this with a character in RC's PBP Barrowmaze game, after he burned all his Luck. Though he was a pretty decent Level 1 Dwarf, having a severely reduced Luck score was just going to get him killed in the long run, so he wisely retired to ply his smithing trade.

Funny stories

I don't know that I would not have continued on with the halfling or dwarf, if they had been my characters. Especially the halfling. Sure, he becomes very limited in some actions (dual wielding might be challenging...), but hey, who ever said adventuring was easy? Isn't it cool to manage to survive when you're the unluckiest SOB around, or the One-Finger halfling?

Impossible to effectively dual wield when you've got just a thumb on one hand, heh.

I guess what I was getting at, though, is that DCC seems to be a game about a slow (or sometimes not so slow) maiming of characters, maybe rather than an outright lethal one.

Skyscraper wrote:Especially the halfling. Sure, he becomes very limited in some actions (dual wielding might be challenging...), but hey, who ever said adventuring was easy? Isn't it cool to manage to survive when you're the unluckiest SOB around, or the One-Finger halfling?

As long as you have one finger left, you can fit the One Ring on it!

It is interesting to see the opinions on the low lethality together with the brutal critical hits.
IMHO DCC players seem to have a perverse pride in the battle scars their characters have sustained in play. A character survives the 0 level sausage grinder; warrior's bodies are whittled away and wizard's are corrupted by magic. It makes a great history for the character. Maybe in another system such characters would be just seen as a hindrance, to be discarded for a new one?

I played a Dwarf fighter (in AD&D) that lost a hand while adventuring, and had a prosthetic hand made to replace it. It worked until he was killed in the next adventure.

Raven_Crowking wrote:I really like the recover the body mechanics. I think that they are great for that pulp-action feel.

I find that players still don't like to be knocked to 0, and I find that sometimes the PCs really are dead when their bodies are turned over. That happened just last game day for me, when a character used a whack of Luck to survive a spider bite, and then was too low in that critical resource to make his Luck check.

In a previous session, a character was killed by an evil snowman with a snowball. In that same session, on PC died because of another PC's Mercurial Magic roll.

And so it goes....

I like the recover the body mechanics as well. But I found some issues with them during play that made me rethink the whole thing for TATG. I'd handle being dropped to 0 HP the same way TATG does. It works better for the groups I've been in. We still have fatalities and such. But it seems less... mercurial. Most people involved with the playtests don't equate 0 HP to instant death anymore. So when a person dies, it's a bigger deal. But people still die.

It just feels less random when they do.

As it stands right now, I am tempted to put a death at -10 mechanic into my house rules for DCC.

Clangador wrote:As it stands right now, I am tempted to put a death at -10 mechanic into my house rules for DCC.

That seems too high, especially at low levels. I'd be inclined to use Negative character level. If you want to be generous, add stamina bonus to the number.

cthulhudarren wrote:

Clangador wrote:As it stands right now, I am tempted to put a death at -10 mechanic into my house rules for DCC.

That seems too high, especially at low levels. I'd be inclined to use Negative character level. If you want to be generous, add stamina bonus to the number.

That is a pretty good idea.

cthulhudarren wrote:

Clangador wrote:As it stands right now, I am tempted to put a death at -10 mechanic into my house rules for DCC.

That seems too high, especially at low levels. I'd be inclined to use Negative character level. If you want to be generous, add stamina bonus to the number.

Not sure how your players roll abilities. But that would be the opposite of generous the DCC games I've been in.