quick feedback

[maldoror]

We've had three or four sessions and here are my suggestions

1.)we house ruled that O level characters start off with at least 2 hit points. they usually die given any blow landed on them but it seemed ridiculous that they should die of a stubbed toe. ok, maybe there are some people out there, hemophiliacs or something, that will die of a goose bite, but considering my original character sheet had 3 characters with only one hit point it seemed sort of ridiculous

2.) pitchforks do 1d8? that's the same as a regular spear, or a longsword. we knew it was skewed when level one characters were keeping their pitchforks instead of the shortswords and morningstars they were finding. would you keep your pitchfork over a sword when going into battle? I suggest d6 or if you're going to use the wacky dice d5.

3.)I was reading some of the other posts and I'm in favor of a D20 system for the thieves skills.

4.)we found the zocchi dice mechanics sort of annoying, as we constantly were having to use the computer to roll dice. on the board some people were saying that weapons rolls should use the funky dice, but for us that would make the game terribly cumbersome.

5.) in general i feel that the extremely high mortality rate should be adjusted slightly, I really like the funnel, but a slightly increased boost at level one, might help the extreme rate of loss. half the time we're in battle my character hides, because I know that even at level one, one hit will probably kill him this cowardice is setting in big time in our game. a level one warrior in armor killed by a rat etc. then again, this may be our DM playing a really brutal game, he's sort of a stickler. maybe saving throws against death or something, it just needs to be worked on somehow. I'm fine with facing character death, but this is just too much.

alright, I'll add more as we play things out a bit more.

[Eldric IV]

4.)we found the zocchi dice mechanics sort of annoying, as we constantly were having to use the computer to roll dice. on the board some people were saying that weapons rolls should use the funky dice, but for us that would make the game terribly cumbersome

Check out this thread for methods using normal RPG dice to simulate Zocchi dice. They are very simple and quick.

[finarvyn]

1.)we house ruled that O level characters start off with at least 2 hit points. they usually die given any blow landed on them but it seemed ridiculous that they should die of a stubbed toe. ok, maybe there are some people out there, hemophiliacs or something, that will die of a goose bite, but considering my original character sheet had 3 characters with only one hit point it seemed sort of ridiculous

5.) in general i feel that the extremely high mortality rate should be adjusted slightly, I really like the funnel, but a slightly increased boost at level one, might help the extreme rate of loss. half the time we're in battle my character hides, because I know that even at level one, one hit will probably kill him this cowardice is setting in big time in our game. a level one warrior in armor killed by a rat etc. then again, this may be our DM playing a really brutal game, he's sort of a stickler. maybe saving throws against death or something, it just needs to be worked on somehow. I'm fine with facing character death, but this is just too much.

These two are kind of connected, so I thought I'd address them together.

I agree that having 1 hp characters is no fun, even when you get 3 of them to play with. I know that a lot of RPGs use the idea that the first hit die is a maxiumum, and since level-0 dudes all start with d4 dice seems like starting all characters off with 4 hp wouldn't be a big imbalance. Remember that we want a decent mortality rate among the funnel-guys, but at the same time the rate at which some of my players lost characters in playtest is really absurd.

With first level characters, you do realize that they are adding their new hit die to their level-0 hit die, right? So a 1st level character with a d10 HD would have 2-14 HP (or 5-14 if you give max HP on the d4) at the start. One hit could still kill them, but that's the way level-1 characters have been since the early days of D&D.

Either way, you're right that DCC is a high-mortality game at early levels. If you survive it really means something!

[finarvyn]

2.) pitchforks do 1d8? that's the same as a regular spear, or a longsword. we knew it was skewed when level one characters were keeping their pitchforks instead of the shortswords and morningstars they were finding. would you keep your pitchfork over a sword when going into battle? I suggest d6 or if you're going to use the wacky dice d5.

I agree that this seems wrong, and I suspect it's a typo. Most RPGs I've seen use d6 for spears, and by extension probably the same for the pitchfork (which is listed "as spear" in table 1-3).

I like your solution.

[finarvyn]

4.)we found the zocchi dice mechanics sort of annoying, as we constantly were having to use the computer to roll dice. on the board some people were saying that weapons rolls should use the funky dice, but for us that would make the game terribly cumbersome.

Eldric IV addressed this but I will toss in a couple more thoughts on this.

The first time you played D&D you probably had to buy a standard set of poly dice. If you play World of Darkness you have to get a whole bunch of d10 dice. Hollow World Expedition (HEX) uses +/- dice. If you play anything FUDGE or FATE related (Dresden Files, Swashbucklers of the Seven Skies, Spirit of the Century, etc) you need +/0/- dice. The old HeroQuest board game by Milton Bradley used dice with skulls, white shields, black shields on the faces. Many RPGs out there have some sort of special dice requirements.

My point is that if you want to play DCC you have a couple of options:
1) Buy a set of the special dice
2) Supplement your current polyhedral dice set with a few you need (d14, d24).
3) Get used to dice rolling tricks such as using a control die to make a d8+control into a d16, or rolling a d20 and re-rolling numbers outside of the range, or whatever.
4) Have a computer or other electronic dice roller handy at all times.

Otherwise, you'll continue to be frustrated by the dice mechanic. The funky dice are a part of DCC's fundamental design, the author and company owner likes them, and they are likely to stay a part of the game.

[JediOre]

I to think a pitchfork should be reduced to a d5.

A regular pitchforks tines are sharp but do not have the ability to penetrate, unless you're made of hay or straw , like a spear or bladed weapon.

That's from my younger years of using a pitchfork to feed the cows their breakfast of choice!

[arcadayn]

Also, don't forget that characters "bleed out" below zero HP equal to their level. I also allow the character to add their stamina mod and cap bleeding out at -10.

There is also the "Recovering the Body" rule on p78.

[Colin]

Hollow World Expedition (HEX) uses +/- dice.

Just correcting a misconception here; the Ubiquity system as used in HEX can use ANY dice with an even number of sides, because it only uses odds/evens to determine success. The specialized Ubiquity dice you can buy simply cut down the number of dice you need to roll, and are absolutely not needed to play, nor does their lack require any changes to the system or dice workarounds or the like. They exist purely as an option to reduce the number of dice being thrown.

Colin

[finarvyn]

Hollow World Expedition (HEX) uses +/- dice.

Just correcting a misconception here; the Ubiquity system as used in HEX can use ANY dice with an even number of sides, because it only uses odds/evens to determine success. The specialized Ubiquity dice you can buy simply cut down the number of dice you need to roll, and are absolutely not needed to play, nor does their lack require any changes to the system or dice workarounds or the like. They exist purely as an option to reduce the number of dice being thrown.

True, but when I bought a copy of HEX at GenCon they had the cool dice and I bought those at the same time. The only time I've played has been with the cool dice.

I realize that any odd/even dice could do the same thing, but this is also true about simulating Zocchi dice or FUDGE dice or most of my other examples.

[abk108]

1.)we house ruled that O level characters start off with at least 2 hit points. they usually die given any blow landed on them but it seemed ridiculous that they should die of a stubbed toe. ok, maybe there are some people out there, hemophiliacs or something, that will die of a goose bite, but considering my original character sheet had 3 characters with only one hit point it seemed sort of ridiculous

1 HP it's not that bad. Ok, you know that 1 hit is going to kill that character. But a good dm would know that too, so probably he will allow YOUR ACTIONS to determine the fate of the character, not HIS WHIMS. I mean, if I know that you have a 1HP Elf, and you're always hiding it behind other PCs, always walking in the middle of the group... i won't have *that* trap spring in the face of your PC. It will probably spring in the face of a PC that is taking more risks. I'm not a "make-it-up, roll-behind-the-screen" DM, but sometimes you need to do it to ensure everyone is having fun, even the guy with three 1HP PCs.

2.) pitchforks do 1d8? that's the same as a regular spear, or a longsword. we knew it was skewed when level one characters were keeping their pitchforks instead of the shortswords and morningstars they were finding. would you keep your pitchfork over a sword when going into battle? I suggest d6 or if you're going to use the wacky dice d5.

Well, I see forks close to spears to the untrained eye. I'd allow it to deal d8 damage, but probably state something like that if they should roll a Crit or an 8 on the damage die they break after the hit (they're not meant for combat). Besides, if i were in a dungeon with my fork and found a 2 ft shortsword... i'd take it, yes, but probably i'd feel more safe behind a 7 ft sharp stick until it breaks.

4.)we found the zocchi dice mechanics sort of annoying, as we constantly were having to use the computer to roll dice. on the board some people were saying that weapons rolls should use the funky dice, but for us that would make the game terribly cumbersome.

just buy the dice, if you plan on playing DCC. I bought cheap d3,d5,d16,d24 and d30 at Diceshoponline for something like 7-8$: we seldom use them (except for the d3 maybe) but when we need them it's a relief to have them handy.

5.) in general i feel that the extremely high mortality rate should be adjusted slightly, I really like the funnel, but a slightly increased boost at level one, might help the extreme rate of loss. half the time we're in battle my character hides, because I know that even at level one, one hit will probably kill him this cowardice is setting in big time in our game. a level one warrior in armor killed by a rat etc. then again, this may be our DM playing a really brutal game, he's sort of a stickler. maybe saving throws against death or something, it just needs to be worked on somehow. I'm fine with facing character death, but this is just too much.

As Finarvyn said, that's the way 1st level PCs have always been, until 4E. Ok, it might be difficult to explain why your warrior got killed by a dire rat, but it has always been more difficult for me to explain why that warrior in 4E could survive something like 10 arrows before even going to negative HP! In the real world, you'd get killed/defeated by 1 arrow... the first thing that comes to my mind is the battle in Braveheart where scottish get defeated by an arrow in a leg. Exception to this were the more experienced warriors that survived with a few arrows in their body and a hand cut off.
Back on topic, I'd say that a good DM should NOT kill PCs when it's really not necessary, not even in DCC. Dying of a rat bite is stupid, no doubt. But if you got bit only because a wandering monster found you, that'd be even more stupid, and I would fiddle with some of the rat's dice rolls to make sure you don't get killed. If instead you intentionally went in the nest of the dire rats after having been warned that there were many of them and they could kill you, well.......