Goodman Games

So, I really don't understand all the hate for the Zocchi dice being expressed over on RPG.net. See: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?578 ... r-Download if you are interested. (If you do read the thread, pay attention to smathis' posts.)

I don't see the Zocchi dice as being a problem. In fact I already own two sets. They weren't as cheap as I would have liked, but they weren't outrageous enough to stop me from buying.

It occurred to me that a poll might be in order to help me understand, so I thought is best to post it here in DCC Central first.

NOTE: When answering, keep in mind that I just mean the funky dice, the prices do not include the standard polyhedral dice.

My vote is 'Already Bought Some' and if I hadn't, I'd have chosen 'Would buy at (within reason) whatever cost'.

Neither vote I'd have given, however, tells the story of why I think they are bad ideas for sales of the game (assuming they are not included in the box with the rules) and for growing the hobby (which I don't think was part of the design criteria - I can live with that). I've already expressed that concern in another thread recently and won't rehash it here.

As an aside, places like rpggeek and rpg.net are not typical of people who might buy this game (they are a tiny minority in a niche market - of the 40 people or so that play RPGs at my local gamestores I'm the only one that bothers to discuss them online) . This particular site (and the GG forums) are even less typical. We're mostly already converts and huge supporters of Joseph and his team - this poll will only showcase what the choir thinks.

-Dave

I'm not sure how to vote, either. I already own a couple of sets, but I'm likely to buy more.

I don't want to pay over $20 for a set of dice, but I've done so before if I like them. I'm really hoping for more choices soon. If I get them, I'll pay whatever is reasonable for them.

Keep in mind that part of the expense is the fact that the sets have more dice in them. If a seven-die set costs $10 (just a hypotherical example) then a twelve-die set would cost just over $17. If you want cheap, just buy the few funky ones you need the most.

finarvyn wrote:I'm not sure how to vote, either. I already own a couple of sets, but I'm likely to buy more.

I don't want to pay over $20 for a set of dice, but I've done so before if I like them. I'm really hoping for more choices soon. If I get them, I'll pay whatever is reasonable for them.

Keep in mind that part of the expense is the fact that the sets have more dice in them. If a seven-die set costs $10 (just a hypotherical example) then a twelve-die set would cost just over $17. If you want cheap, just buy the few funky ones you need the most.

I think if Joseph can get dice from someone other than GameScience then the sets shouldn't be all that pricey. I wouldn't mind seeing the d3, d5, and d7 using same polyhedral as the d6, d10 and d14, just numbered twice. I'd like to see the highest number on each die inked in a different color so it makes it easier to tell the d16 from the d14 and to tell any double numbered dice from the dice they share a polyhedral with. I was playing a Wizard in a campaign a while back that just couldn't ever seem to get much damage out of his fireballs. Turns out I had accidentally bought a bunch of d3s that were the same shape as d6s.

I already own two sets. BUT I voted for the $11-$13 range because when I've asked people about the dice at my playtest post-mortems, THAT'S the price point they've been saying approaches the breaking point for them. So I'm voting on their behalf.

I don't think that the dice can be offered for much more than $10 and not affect overall sales of the rulebook.

Personally, I think the dice issue is getting way overblown on the internet. No one wants to pay $25 for dice just to test out a game. And, IMO, no one has to.

I went through the entirety of chargen for half a dozen characters without funky dice because I was too lazy to get my Zocchi dice out of the closet in the guest room. I just used the normal dice to give me the funky results. I was even missing a d10 so I had to roll percentiles with a d12 and a d10.

It's really not that big of a deal. I think the dice issue is way out of proportion versus its impact on play. You want a d7? Grab an uninked d8 and then only color in 1-7. Reroll the "blank" side. It's really that easy.

Epic Double-Post Fail!

I agree there should be a "DCC RPG Box Set" (or some such) which includes a set of the Zocchi dice. Price it reasonably, say $10 US over the cost of the book alone.

I don't remember exactly what I paid, but it was somewhere around $25-30 for each set of Zocchi dice. For the average gamer this is way too much. I would like to see them offered for around half that cost to start with. Bottom line is that they need to be offered in volume quantities for prices people are willing to pay.

The impression which I have is that the main complaint on RPG.net is that the dice are hard to get and too expensive. Yes, there were a few "don't want to buy different dice" sorts of responses, but mainly it seems to me that availability and cost are the main factors. I just want to know what people are willing to pay for them.

dkeester wrote:The impression which I have is that the main complaint on RPG.net is that the dice are hard to get and too expensive. Yes, there were a few "don't want to buy different dice" sorts of responses, but mainly it seems to me that availability and cost are the main factors. I just want to know what people are willing to pay for them.

Some of those guys are overseas or in Canada. So it's tougher on them to get the dice too.

dkeester wrote:I agree there should be a "DCC RPG Box Set" (or some such) which includes a set of the Zocchi dice. Price it reasonably, say $10 US over the cost of the book alone.

I've got no clue about the actual costs of publishing so take this with a grain of salt.

I wouldn't mind seeing a DCC RPG Starter boxed set that comes with dice and comes with a GMs screen and soft cover books ( possibly split into a player's and a judges book ). If the books were digest sized that would be a bonus in my book.

Even if this was priced 10 or 15 dollars above the price of the hardback ( especially if you could fit in an intro module ) I'd want to swap in my preordered hardback for it.

I bought some after I pre-ordered the game.

smathis wrote:

dkeester wrote:The impression which I have is that the main complaint on RPG.net is that the dice are hard to get and too expensive. Yes, there were a few "don't want to buy different dice" sorts of responses, but mainly it seems to me that availability and cost are the main factors. I just want to know what people are willing to pay for them.

Some of those guys are overseas or in Canada. So it's tougher on them to get the dice too.

Right. That is why I mentioned both availability and cost.

Yep, had to pay almost $30 a set with shipping to Canada.

dkeester wrote:Right. That is why I mentioned both availability and cost.

Sorry. I rolled a "1" on my Search check on that one.

wavemotion wrote:My vote is 'Already Bought Some' and if I hadn't, I'd have chosen 'Would buy at (within reason) whatever cost'.

Same here, though I think there is one size I'm missing...

Dreamslinger wrote: I think if Joseph can get dice from someone other than GameScience then the sets shouldn't be all that pricey. I wouldn't mind seeing the d3, d5, and d7 using same polyhedral as the d6, d10 and d14, just numbered twice. I'd like to see the highest number on each die inked in a different color so it makes it easier to tell the d16 from the d14 and to tell any double numbered dice from the dice they share a polyhedral with. I was playing a Wizard in a campaign a while back that just couldn't ever seem to get much damage out of his fireballs. Turns out I had accidentally bought a bunch of d3s that were the same shape as d6s.

There are d3s, d4s (based on d8 or d12 forms) and d5s like that already (I also have a d6-1; runs from 0 to 5; and averaging dice - d6s with 2, 3, 3, 4, 4, 5 - so I tend to go for the strange dice!)

smathis wrote:

dkeester wrote:Right. That is why I mentioned both availability and cost.

Sorry. I rolled a "1" on my Search check on that one.

lol. No worries.

finarvyn wrote:I'm not sure how to vote, either. I already own a couple of sets, but I'm likely to buy more.

I don't want to pay over $20 for a set of dice, but I've done so before if I like them. I'm really hoping for more choices soon. If I get them, I'll pay whatever is reasonable for them.

Keep in mind that part of the expense is the fact that the sets have more dice in them. If a seven-die set costs $10 (just a hypotherical example) then a twelve-die set would cost just over $17. If you want cheap, just buy the few funky ones you need the most.

I approve of this message!

It's not on the list, but I would just use a dice roller app. I've already got Dicenomicon on my iPhone, and it has all the Zocchi dice in it.

I voted 8-10$. I'm from Europe, and I found them only in the US, so should i buy them, i'd have to take into account International Airmail, that can be something like 10$ and takes weeks!

For now, I just modified a d6 and a d8 (filling with white paint the dots in the d6, sanding and painting the d8 anew) to get a d3 and a d2 respectively. I can roll using the formulas suggested on the forum without too much of a hassle, really.

Dice rolling Apps are good only for mass rolling, i think it distracts players and disrupts the DCC atmospehre to have an iphone at the center of the game.

Can I change my vote now that I've bought some?

dkeester wrote:I agree there should be a "DCC RPG Box Set" (or some such) which includes a set of the Zocchi dice. Price it reasonably, say $10 US over the cost of the book alone.

I don't remember exactly what I paid, but it was somewhere around $25-30 for each set of Zocchi dice. For the average gamer this is way too much. I would like to see them offered for around half that cost to start with. Bottom line is that they need to be offered in volume quantities for prices people are willing to pay.

The impression which I have is that the main complaint on RPG.net is that the dice are hard to get and too expensive. Yes, there were a few "don't want to buy different dice" sorts of responses, but mainly it seems to me that availability and cost are the main factors. I just want to know what people are willing to pay for them.

I just spent $35 on a set of twelve dice and I still need to find a D30. I have one but the corners are rounded and it tends to roll like a ball. So I agree that at $35+ the price is to much for your average gamer to spend to play DCC.

Arayis wrote:

finarvyn wrote:I'm not sure how to vote, either. I already own a couple of sets, but I'm likely to buy more.

I don't want to pay over $20 for a set of dice, but I've done so before if I like them. I'm really hoping for more choices soon. If I get them, I'll pay whatever is reasonable for them.

Keep in mind that part of the expense is the fact that the sets have more dice in them. If a seven-die set costs $10 (just a hypotherical example) then a twelve-die set would cost just over $17. If you want cheap, just buy the few funky ones you need the most.

I approve of this message!

Thanks. I finally did vote. Rather than vote for "I've already got some" I chose to pick the $20-$30 range, which is what I would (and still will) pay if I can get a full set of good-quality matching Zocchi dice.

My rationalle is that the poll really wants to know what we are willing to pay, and avoiding the question seemed like a cop-out to me.

jamescbennett wrote:It's not on the list, but I would just use a dice roller app. I've already got Dicenomicon on my iPhone, and it has all the Zocchi dice in it.

I'd use a dice roller app like Dicenomicon too if I played this game on an ongoing basis.

Mike_Ferguson wrote:

jamescbennett wrote:It's not on the list, but I would just use a dice roller app. I've already got Dicenomicon on my iPhone, and it has all the Zocchi dice in it.

I'd use a dice roller app like Dicenomicon too if I played this game on an ongoing basis.

Just got my precision dice and I'm underwhelmed. The giant chunks of excess plastic are a bit much. I don't know how these can be considered precision dice. I'm sorry but for $35 bucks I don't want to spend a bunch of time sanding my dice so they can look like crap . The precision made dice used on craps tables don't look like this. Maybe they should have named them Uniquely Unbalanced Dice. I would not buy another set of these ever again. I think the dice roller mentioned above would have been a better choice.

The "full" Dicenomicon app runs $4.99, IIRC. It covers just about any polyhedral dice shape you can imagine, including the stuff in the DCC game. Seems to me to be a good way to test out the DCC without spending a lot of money on dice you may not want, especially since you'll probably be able to use the app for other things.

I bought the app to handle dice pools for Shadowrun and Exalted, but I've found myself using it a lot (even though I generally prefer rolling physical dice to tapping a smartphone). It's not as fun as rolling a big fistful of six-siders, but it's handy.