Are Psionics to be like DCC Magic?

[dark cauliflower]

madness, mind powers, mind flayor blasts! Telepathy.

I have no idea where mental powers snuck in out of Appendix N literature. Can't recall a Mind Flayer anywhere in any of the books I've read.

But we know mind monsters exist. I'm trying to envision if there mental powers would be like DCC spellz. I'm only vaguely familiar with 1rst edition Psionics. Would we see misfires, corruption, taints? Will we have little charts of variable effects.

Or are we to expect: Mind Blast, character rolls a Will save vs. 24 DC or his head melts.

these thoughts perplex me. What's your expectations?

[Ravenheart87]

As far as I know the idea for Mind Flayers came from a cover of Burrowers Beneath. Psionics has its roots in science-fiction, but during "Appendix N times" there wasn't such a strict separation of genres like now.

For psionics, I would steal and tinker with Carcosa's system, it's pretty easy to use it and include it in any game. The Appendix Y of X-Plorers is nice too. You can add misfires, corruption, taints, but then it would be nothing more than another kind of magic. Using a different sub-system and style (eg. it's more stable, less powerful, point-based) is the way I would go.

[Dark Lord]

I have never understood why it needs a different system than magic in any game.

[TheNobleDrake]

I have never understood why it needs a different system than magic in any game.

It doesn't need a different system - it's just nice to have one where possible... much like it is nice for clerics to have disapproval and wizards to have mercurial magic & spellburn though there is no need for their magic to be different.

[Ravenheart87]

I have never understood why it needs a different system than magic in any game.

Why call it something else if it's just magic again with different spell list?

[Colin]

IIRC psionics in D&D owes much of its inclusion to Katherine Kurtz's Deryni series of fantasy novels (the first of which was published in 1970). Of course, there have been plenty of fantasy series with psionics in them since then.

Colin

[Dark Lord]

I have never understood why it needs a different system than magic in any game.

Why call it something else if it's just magic again with different spell list?

role playing?

In all seriousness, I think too often gamers seek to create something new when what they want is already created for them. A psionic character, can mean several things really, and the power level can swing widely depending on the world the GM is creating. No one set of rules is going to make psionics for everyone.

IMO the best way to make psionics would be with the wizard class that already exists, use of mercurial effects (in the way they book describes using it for schools of magic), creating an available spell list that is tailored to how you see psionics functioning.
What needs to be done beyond that? In fact, you could probably use the rules for spell duels to have psionic duels with little or no tinkering.

I often use the example of the player who wanted to run a ninja in my basic D&D game years ago. Instead of asking to make a new class, he created an elf. He chose spells that gave him his ninja powers (magic missile/shuriken, invisibility/ninja stealth, sleep/tranq darts etc). Anything else only took some minor tweaking to make it make sense. I believe we changed the immunity to ghoul paralysis and gave him a bonus on his saves vs Dragon Breath.

That character was legendary, and I'll always remember it before I go tinkering with rules. It will remind me to look and see whether or not the existing rules already do what I want them to do.

[dark cauliflower]

yeah, I think the spell duel system points the way to a mental battle system. I hope we don't ever have a Psionics class but make it a option that comes from the characters background... or an accident of birth.

Maybe latching 1rst edition psionic rules to our characters is the answer?

[Ogrepuppy]

It will remind me to look and see whether or not the existing rules already do what I want them to do.

Nicely put. I agree wholeheartedly!


....


Having said that, Psionics Unleashed by Dreamscarred Press is an amazing product if you do care to have exclusive rules. They also address the concept of magic/psionic "transparency" (e.g. you can choose to have magic influence psionics and vice-versa, or not).

[dark cauliflower]

As far as I know the idea for Mind Flayers came from a cover of Burrowers Beneath. Psionics has its roots in science-fiction, but during "Appendix N times" there wasn't such a strict separation of genres like now.

For psionics, I would steal and tinker with Carcosa's system, it's pretty easy to use it and include it in any game. The Appendix Y of X-Plorers is nice too. You can add misfires, corruption, taints, but then it would be nothing more than another kind of magic. Using a different sub-system and style (eg. it's more stable, less powerful, point-based) is the way I would go.

I've heard the Carcosa book has a simple one page psionic system but the book costs 40.00. Doesn't seem to be anything else in the book I'd want at this time. Too expensive.

[reverenddak]

I've heard the Carcosa book has a simple one page psionic system but the book costs 40.00. Doesn't seem to be anything else in the book I'd want at this time. Too expensive.

Carcosa is a campaign setting, and one of the best I've ever read. The production is the highest of any RPG product I've ever held in my hands, from the soft, warm, leatherette cover to the subtle colors of the pages, and the horrific imagery that matches the miles upon miles of encounters (every hex has TWO encounters) and hundreds of blasphemous spells and terrible monsters. The psionic system is simple, but the tightest I've ever seen and the first time I've read a psionic rules system that I liked. And it's only a four pages. But it matches the setting, because the setting is about its spells, which are pleasantly disgusting to read. And its monsters. And its peoples. It's worth twice what they're charging (unlike some other campaign settings I've seen.)

I felt the same way for a while, in that psionics IS magic. But I'd consider what we call "magic" in DCC RPG can not just be "arcane", with its corrupting nature, but also divine, and blessed upon by gods. A simple explanation, that not everyone has to subscribe to, is that arcane, or corruption magic, is the way it is because it is "man" playing with a force he doesn't really understand, but divine magic is spiritual magic from the source--gods. So what is, or would be psionics? It could easily be another source of power that no one really understands or has complete control of. No matter what, nothing "super" natural should be without its drawbacks. Otherwise everyone would dabble in it. In most "d&d" games, having psionic power is a matter of chance, with certain abilities (higher scores) increasing those odds. I'd make it a lower check overall, but have it done regularly, because it could be repressed??? (some other word I can't think of.) LATENT!...

[dark cauliflower]

I understand that it sounds cool and everything but I'm not paying $80.00 for one page of psionics and a campaign setting I don't want to play in. $.50 might be a better price for its mind stuff.

[reverenddak]

I understand that it sounds cool and everything but I'm not paying $80.00 for one page of psionics and a campaign setting I don't want to play in. $.50 might be a better price for its mind stuff.

Nope, just saying that it's worth $160 for one of the most brilliant campaign settings, and why. It just happens to have a kick-ass psionics system. I wouldn't pay $320 for 4 pages unless they're made of pure gold either.

[ragboy]

Carcosa is a campaign setting, and one of the best I've ever read.

I was on the fence last night about buying this. I guess you've convinced me. Anywhere stateside that I can get the PDF AND the physical book combo?