balance concern... assasin

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Is the study point mechanic for assasins overpowered?

Poll ended at Mon Jul 13, 2009 9:31 am

Yes... it's overpowered.
0
No votes
No... it's fair and balanced.
0
No votes
I'm not sure... needs more testing.
1
100%
 
Total votes: 1

modus666
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balance concern... assasin

Post by modus666 » Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:31 am

ok, let me make sure i understand correctly...

1) most assasin attacks grant one or more study points.
2) study points grant an escalating power bonus to both hit and damage to the target you are studying when using most any attack
3) there are no upper limits to study points, simply repeating the pattern presented in the chart on pg 12
4) in addition, study points may be expended on a 1-for-1 basis for additional dice of damage.

thus... a first level assasing, who say, banks up 6 study points will score a +2 to hit and +4 damage on every attack vs his subject... AND con blow all 6 on a successful hit for +6d6 MORE damage.

you DO realize this means a first level assasin can unleash an attack dealing +10d6 damage PLUS weapon die, PLUS stats, PLUS magic, and/or consistently deal an ever-increasing amount of damage.

i mean... really? isnt this a bit much? i havent crunched out the numbers and compared with the assasins next of kin, the rogue... but my hunch tells me that the assasin quickly outpaces the rogue in damage output, since study points and their bonuses dont require combat advantage or a flank to work.

i find the mechanic novel, and i would LIKE to use it... but all i can see in my head is an assasin standing next to a solo monster going "oh yeah... well next turn itll do +10d6... nyah nyah"

i encourage others to voice their opinion on this one so ill post a little poll with this message and see what the masses think ;)

Tavis
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Re: balance concern... assasin

Post by Tavis » Mon Jul 06, 2009 1:00 pm

Assassin Class Features: Death Study wrote:Against any one target, you can accrue a number of points equal to 1 plus your Intelligence modifier. Any points accrued in excess of this limit are lost.
So your assumption #3 is incorrect - the assassin's Intelligence modifier sets an upper limit. Note that the death of the target also limits the number of points you can accumulate against them.

During development we made up a bunch of spreadsheets to plot the accumulated damage of an assassin vs. a rogue under standard combat conditions. The assassin comes out ahead over time, but the rogue (esp. a brutal rogue) does more damage in the first few rounds. This gives the assassin an edge against solos, which we saw as fitting for the class concept. The rogue does better at dealing with standard encounters that don't have elites or solos, because normal monsters tend to drop before the assassin could work up enough study points to gain the damage & accuracy that the rogue gets from the start. Playtesting also showed that in normal (non-elite/solo) encounters the assassin often doesn't have the luxury of focusing hits on a single creature; having to switch targets occasionally further slows the buildup of study points against any one of them.
Co-author: Forgotten Heroes: Fist, Fang, and Song and Scythe and Shroud; Heroes' Handbook: Eladrin; and two finished Goodman projects that haven't been announced yet, with others on the drawing board!

modus666
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Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2007 11:15 pm

Re: balance concern... assasin

Post by modus666 » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:19 am

So your assumption #3 is incorrect - the assassin's Intelligence modifier sets an upper limit. Note that the death of the target also limits the number of points you can accumulate against them.
AHHHHH.... theres the rub. ok i see that now. the sinewy assasin will likely not have the highest intmod to start with, as they will focus on dex and str, and the prowling assasin will have lower dmg initially due to lack of str, yes?

i see now how it would even out at higher levels. the rogues getting their full dice every turn, while the assasin has to work up to it. solos should fear assasins very much tho :)

thanks for bopping my noggin tavis :P

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